Hi pedelecers,

 

I am in a quandary.

 

We have designed a new step through frame in carbon. Our target audience is larger, heavier riders wanting a stiff, solid, light weight frame with high end components. Shimano 7000 series and in frame removable battery. The bike will retail between £3,500 and £4,500 depending on specs.

 

Obviously the bike is not only for the larger and heavier rider but it will cater for those guys too.

 

Am I completely barking?

 

All the best, David

I can only speak on a personal level. We are not all lycra clad riders, some of us are older and heavier riders who still like cycling at a leisurely pace but checking many of the specs on ebikes rider weight is an issue and has turned me of from many suppliers.If I had only one big issue its the weight of the bike itself Carbon is expensive but makes much lighter frames. Not sure how big the market would be, but I have said this many times, the older generation are turning more to ebikes than ever before as noted on Southport sea front yet again last weekend. Interested if the upcoming Pineapple(!!) specs cover heavier riders?

Thanks for your input al.b, I know it’s not going to sell by the 1000 but our new MO for Wisper Pro bikes is to produce arrange of high end bikes for more niche audiences. We will of course continue with our SE and Torque ranges too.

 

Here is the frame design, in frame battery up to 500Wh.

 

All the best, David .

Re the Pinaple, we will be showing for the first time at Eurobike, but I am worried about that market. I’m really not sure about very low Wh batteries or the ebike train/car commuter market. I am looking forward to getting the trade’s reaction.

 

Our 806se and Torque are quite heavy and are not built for whipping on and off the train twice a day, however we literally sell them as soon they arrive in our warehouse. We have been surprised by the number of people ordering the folder with our new 700Wh battery. I think range is dramatically important and I am not sure tiny batteries are the way forward.

Edited June 23, 20187 yr by Wisper Bikes

I agree with you and you know your market very well but don't underestimate Older people power who have access(not me) to pension pots! I also find it very disheartening that in the North of England its rarely that their is any show or event featuring ebikes? maybe the caravan and camping exhibition held in Manchester each year could be an opportunity but I feel the niche market will develop over the next few years especially the UK Government want to scrap diesel and petrol cars by 2025 maybe a pipe dream who knows. Aluminium is expensive to produce and with the current trade war on these products who knows the knock on effect by manufactures especially in China I love the look of the frame and If I am still alive to tell the tale I would love to buy one next year Good Luck

Re the Pinaple, we will be showing fir the first time at Eurobike, but I am worried about that market. I’m really not sure about very low Wh batteries or the ebike train/car commuter market. I am looking forward to getting the trade’s reaction.

 

Our 806se and Torque are quite heavy and are not built for whipping on and off the train twice a day, however we literally sell them as soon they arrive in our warehouse. We have been surprised by the number of people ordering the folder with our new 700Wh battery. I think range is dramatically important and I am not sure tiny batteries are the way forward.

 

Range is the most important consideration for me.

I have the large 24ah 26v Kalkhoff battery and still carry a spare on some of my trips.

Edited June 23, 20187 yr by Kenny

Hi pedelecers,

 

I am in a quandary.

 

We have designed a new step through frame in carbon. Our target audience is larger, heavier riders wanting a stiff, solid, light weight frame with high end components. Shimano 7000 series and in frame removable battery. The bike will retail between £3,500 and £4,500 depending on specs.

 

Obviously the bike is not only for the larger and heavier rider but it will cater for those guys too.

 

Am I completely barking?

 

All the best, David

As we don't have an indigenous manufacturing base of e-bikes in the UK, it's difficult to see how the market will react with a label 'designed in the UK'. I tend to think that you need to be established as an international brand to be sure of the uptake of a new design unless the latter breaks genuinely new grounds.

I think that price will be the most important thing in purchasers minds, particularly those new to ebiking.

I cannot speak for others, but I do wonder just how many people would be prepared to spend the sort of money on an ebike that would buy them a fairly decent second hand car

Estate agents talk about location, location, location.

 

For ebikes it's range, range, range.

 

Plenty of motors, both crank and hub, do a decent job.

 

But it's batteries and in particular battery range that is the weakest link.

 

Going back to this new Wisper bike, what crank motor is it going to have?

 

Someone spending £4K will want to see a premium name such as Bosch, Shimano, or Yamaha.

 

There might be nothing wrong with a Bafang or other brand few people have heard of, but the perception of lower quality remains.

what crank motor is it going to have?

it's Shimano E7000, battery is 500WH.

Price for E7000 + 500WH on alloy frame will start at around £2k.

it's Shimano E7000, battery is 500WH.

 

Could be worse, although for that money and given it is supposed to be high end I would expect full electronic integration with the rest of the groupset.

 

There may be some consumer resistance to the frame material.

 

My mountain biking mate Jonathan, who is young and weighs about as much as my left leg, cannot bring himself to buy a carbon bike having seen a tiny number crack over the years.

 

Probably no more than ally bikes, but the perception of ultimate weakness remains.

 

A prospective buyer of this Wisper may not be so enmeshed in cycling culture which could be a benefit in terms of preconceived notions about the frame material.

Edited June 23, 20187 yr by RobF

Hi guys thanks.

 

This bike will be made in the UK along with the Mountain and road bikes and will be all Shimano, with a choice of Shimano drives.

 

This is the Wisper Pro range which is currently being renamed the Wisper Works range. Our Works bikes will be built in Kent with motor and kit options to order. Much like the RM model in Germany.

 

We are hoping the Wisper brand is strong enough after nearly 14 years in the business and when aligned with Shimano that will give us the credibility.

 

Shimano are actively supporting our efforts and have now given us OEM status.

 

All the best, David

 

that bike is 10k and the stick won lol.

. Our Works bikes will be built in Kent with motor and kit options to order. Much like the RM model in Germany.

 

You might be on to something there.

 

Anyone can buy a heap of quality bike bits.

 

Quite a few people can screw those bits together to a high standard.

 

What is much rarer is finding a company that does both.

 

R&M does, the bits are mostly high quality, but perhaps more importantly, the build quality is second to none.

I agree Rob, there are millions of great ideas out there, a few people who have the staying power and skills to make a product and fewer still that can create a business to sell the products and then fewer still that can make a profit. It’s the last bit we strugge with!

I agree Rob, there are millions of great ideas out there, a few people who have the staying power and skills to make a product and fewer still that can create a business to sell the products and then fewer still that can make a profit. It’s the last bit we strugge with!

 

If it was easy we'd all be doing it.

 

I'm sure you've done the costings and can see a return at the prices you've indicated.

 

The plan seems realistic to me, and this trail has already been blazed by the likes of Spa Cycles in Harrogate.

 

Their own brand bikes are priced complete in a given spec, but customers can chop and change bits, usually just for the price difference of the component.

 

Touring cyclists love being able to spec the likes of wheels, stems, and gears to their requirements.

 

The advantage to the customer is he gets a partly-customised bike for an off-the-shelf price.

 

https://www.spacycles.co.uk/m1b0s21p0/Bikes/Touring-Audax-and-Sportive

and then fewer still that can make a profit. It’s the last bit we strugge with!

you and I and many more like us could create a little opportunity for ourselves in providing products and looking after the customers at competitive prices against the bulk of available choices, which is essentially a better value proposition . We could do that until now on the back of Chinese imports. As anti-dumping duty is going to push prices up in TW by a fair amount. Quotes I got 3-4 months ago were typically 5% less than those given to me last week and that trend is going to continue until supply matches demand. Given that TW prices are now 10% higher than the price we paid a couple of months ago, I wonder how many of us can hold on to their hitherto same value proposition.

Could be worse, although for that money and given it is supposed to be high end I would expect full electronic integration with the rest of the groupset.

 

My mountain biking mate Jonathan, who is young and weighs about as much as my left leg, cannot bring himself to buy a carbon bike having seen a tiny number crack over the years.

 

At the top end we would use Shimano Di2 electronic integration. The carbon we are using is far stronger than any alloy frame and just as importantly lighter and more stiff.

 

All the best, David

For £4395 I can get one of these

which will carry a heavier person and up to 150 kg in the box for us lighter folk...

 

I wish it had a Bafang PAS motor is about the only bad thing I can say about it.

what would it cost to make a bike frame from aerospace grade carbon ?

It is the design, engineering and qualified labour that costs the money, not the raw material.

what would it cost to make a bike frame from aerospace grade carbon ?

 

We use aerospace grade carbon. The frames cost a lot.

 

All the best, David

24K CF?

The truth is that all carbon used to create bikes or cars is the same as Aerospace grade, it just comes without the super high levels of certification needed in the aerospace industry and is therefore less expensive. Regarding the stiffness and lightness of the carbon, we use three different levels. If we were to use super light super stiff carbon everywhere the bike would be brittle. The key is to use the correct grade carbon in the right areas. This is why making a good carbon frame is expensive. In our full sus carbon frame there are over 800 separate pieces of carbon sheet, each frame takes two weeks for one person to make. As kiwi says, the carbon itself isn’t expensive, it’s the skilled labour that costs the money, that and the tooling.

Edited June 24, 20187 yr by Wisper Bikes

And the design is expensive with the carbon layout plans.