Here's an idea … ignore them.

It's ridiculous that car manufacturers didn't come to a battery standard insofar as the ability to just swap a battery, pay and go onto your journey in a handful of minutes. Essentially you'd rent the battery; the specifics would need sorting out but this would mean existing petrol stations could offer the service and "charging" would be much more comparable to refilling with petrol and charged at the POS.

 

The grid would need much less infrastructure change - local transformers wouldn't handle the vast majority of the load as the transformers handling petrol stations would handle much more of the charging.

It's ridiculous that car manufacturers didn't come to a battery standard insofar as the ability to just swap a battery, pay and go onto your journey in a handful of minutes. Essentially you'd rent the battery; the specifics would need sorting out but this would mean existing petrol stations could offer the service and "charging" would be much more comparable to refilling with petrol and charged at the POS.

 

The grid would need much less infrastructure change - local transformers wouldn't handle the vast majority of the load as the transformers handling petrol stations would handle much more of the charging.

Doesn't allow for any development, we'd all still be stuck with a standard horse or something!

It's ridiculous that car manufacturers didn't come to a battery standard insofar as the ability to just swap a battery, pay and go onto your journey in a handful of minutes. Essentially you'd rent the battery; the specifics would need sorting out but this would mean existing petrol stations could offer the service and "charging" would be much more comparable to refilling with petrol and charged at the POS.

 

The grid would need much less infrastructure change - local transformers wouldn't handle the vast majority of the load as the transformers handling petrol stations would handle much more of the charging.

 

Renault did do this in Israel and many stations had the batteries, but I understand it's considered a failure.

 

Among many problems there's the design stagnation that Chris mentions and not knowing what quality of battery is being received each time.

 

With the long life of today's batteries and a 250 mile range becoming widely available from next year I don't think an exchange scheme necessary now.

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Constructing oak framed buildings for a living, I'm seeing a big increase the clients that I work for, either future proofing the garage electrics by adding provision for a charging point, or who actually own electric cars.

The last client was apparently selling surplus supply back to the grid, but I don't know how that works, or whether it was even true.

 

Having recently purchased a new to us diesel estate, I'm actually thinking that perhaps we should of looked at electric cars. In hindsight, most of our journeys are local, and when we do complete longer journeys, we could of simply hired a car. Perhaps, when my daughter has finished uni, and we aren't doing any journeys of significance, then that will be the time to change.

 

 

 

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Edited November 9, 20187 yr by EddiePJ

The last client was apparently selling surplus supply back to the grid, but I don't know how that works, or whether it was even true.

 

This is true Eddie. For example the Chademo charging connector that Nissan use on the Leaf is a two way system, able to pass current back to the grid.

 

This is very popular in Denmark where the electricity suppliers are set up for it. The benefit for car owners is that they can set their timers to charge from low cost night rate electricity, then on days when not using their car, allow the content go back to the grid for a larger rate per kW, so making a profit which is deducted from their electricity bill.

 

The benefit for the supplier and the country is that the current feedback in the day reduces the generation need.

 

It works well. Take my car battery for example, it's 40 kWh. That's sufficient to supply my all-electric flat for 5 days in Summer or 1 of the coldest days of winter when the electric heating cost makes up most of the demand. So that quantity returned to the grid from each car is a very useful contribution for daytime demands. With next year's over 60 kWh batteries it will be even more useful.

 

I agree with the governments who believe car owners will be a significant part of each countries future generating infrastructure, spreading the generation and demand load. After all, most of the near 30 million of our cars stand idle most of each day, so they might as well be supplying the grid and earning money for their owners.

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Edited November 9, 20187 yr by flecc

In a similar vein to the post directly above.

The Tesla Powerwall 2 battery allows you to store the enrgy produced by the solar panels, instead of exporting this energy to the grid.

 

Battery capacity is 14kwh.

 

You still get paid for the Feed in Tariff as well.

 

Attached is the data for this year.

 

Detached house, 4 bedrooms, and includes all the energy used for running a Nissan Leaf

Doesn't allow for any development, we'd all still be stuck with a standard horse or something!

I don't agree with the lack of innovation. Cells are getting better gradually; batteries can be modular and the configuration (done by the car) how they are grouped.

 

Cars are already held back by the industry: safety standards for parts, safety requirements and regulations for car electronics, laws requiring outdated communications standards (CAN).

 

This would solve the biggest issue with pushing everyone to electric cars as not everyone has off-street parking. Charging from lamp posts is highly flawed. Charging your car when you have no choice but to park in a car park for reasons such as living in a block of flats. And of course the issue with local transformers are not sized to handle the loads required should everyone be charging at night.

Requires a massive change in regards to how we consider “fuelling”.

 

Charge points at place of work, car parks, hospitals etc.

 

Anywhere where people visit, that way the cars are charged whilst not in use.

 

Still doesn’t address congestion though.....

In a similar vein to the post directly above.

The Tesla Powerwall 2 battery allows you to store the enrgy produced by the solar panels, instead of exporting this energy to the grid.

 

Battery capacity is 14kwh.

 

You still get paid for the Feed in Tariff as well.

 

Attached is the data for this year.

 

Detached house, 4 bedrooms, and includes all the energy used for running a Nissan Leaf

But Tesla Powerwalls are not economical, even in places such as Sydney, Australia. EEVBlog has done the calculations on this. DIY power walls can be effective though.

Is your car economic? Nothing looses value quicker than motor vehicle depreciation.

 

Sure, PW2 is about £6000.

 

But, I still get about £1000 FIT.

This year to date we have saved about £500 in electricity that I would have purchased without the PW2.

 

PW2 makes long term sense, won’t have another ICE car, so my car will be charged via the PW2.

 

Think long term, certainly makes more sense than throwing the money at a depreciation on a car.

 

Forgot to say, we were spending about £800 a year on diesel, so add that to the savings.

I don't agree with the lack of innovation. Cells are getting better gradually; batteries can be modular and the configuration (done by the car) how they are grouped.

 

I think you've misunderstood, it's the large stock of existing batteries in the system that would remain stuck with their old tech for their 8 or more year life. People buying cars with latest battery included each year brings much more rapid advancement. Anyway it's a moot point since battery swapping been done and dismissed so won't be tried again.

 

The whole of the rest of your post I fully agree with.

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but why the hell is it even a thing? I wasn't expecting this crap to be honest lol

For some reason Brits are jealous of anyone who has something they don't, whether it's an add-on to their house, a nicer car, or a £4K e-bike. Ignore the comments, as everyone says, and be snug that you have something the rabble covets.

A big problem with electric cars is not so much range as range anxiety.

 

Would anyone buy a petrol car with a two or three gallon tank?

 

Short answer is 'no', even though the same arguments about rarely needing long range in one journey apply.

Range anxiety is not really a problem, batteries are increasing in size, hence mileage.

 

I speak from experience, had a Leaf 24kw battery for over two years.

 

Never run out of energy once.

Just requires a little planning if you need to travel longer distances, not difficult really.

 

Just another myth that people throw up.

Do you really need a full tank of fossil fuel just to feel happy about the ability to drive say 400 miles?

 

As Bob Dylan said “ The times they are a changing”

Range anxiety is not really a problem, batteries are increasing in size, hence mileage.

 

I speak from experience, had a Leaf 24kw battery for over two years.

 

Never run out of energy once.

Just requires a little planning if you need to travel longer distances, not difficult really.

 

Just another myth that people throw up.

Do you really need a full tank of fossil fuel just to feel happy about the ability to drive say 400 miles?

 

As Bob Dylan said “ The times they are a changing”

 

Perception, as I said.

 

People will not buy an electric car because they do not want a vehicle with a short range.

 

It's not rational, given that the range can be managed, but it doesn't have to be rational.

 

That attitude may change over time, but like battery technology, progress is desperately slow.

A big problem with electric cars is not so much range as range anxiety.

 

Would anyone buy a petrol car with a two or three gallon tank?

 

Short answer is 'no', even though the same arguments about rarely needing long range in one journey apply.

 

I have a neighbour who after looking at my Leaf said he would never buy one due the range anxiety.

 

Knowing he rarely used his car I quizzed him and found that almost all his light usage was very local and the furthest he ever went was to friends at Hastings one or twice each Summer. That's a 104 mile return journey, very comfortably within the 160 plus Summer miles I get from my car and there's several charge points at Hastings anyway. After discussion he ended by saying once again that range anxiety means he wouldn't buy one.

 

It was clear that range anxiety was just a learnt phrase that got automatically trotted out in any e-car discussion. It will be interesting to see if it persists with batteries that give a realistic 250 miles like some of next years. I bet it will, though very few ever drive that far.

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I have a neighbour who after looking at my Leaf said he would never buy one due the range anxiety.

 

Knowing he rarely used his car I quizzed him and found that almost all his light usage was very local and the furthest he ever went was to friends at Hastings one or twice each Summer. That's a 104 mile return journey, very comfortably within the 160 plus Summer miles I get from my car and there's several charge points at Hastings anyway. After discussion he ended by saying once again that range anxiety means he wouldn't buy one.

 

It was clear that range anxiety was just a learnt phrase that got automatically trotted out in any e-car discussion. It will be interesting to see if it persists with batteries that give a realistic 250 miles like some of next years. I bet it will, though very few ever drive that far.

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For occasional long range trip hire a car. The annual fuel savings from electic car would pay for lot of hire days, especially budget hire cars.

The trouble with the UK at the moment is that the charger you are planning to use on your longer journey could easily not be working leading to extreme range anxiety!

 

I do not change my car often but did recently and had a hard look at the VW Passat GTE estate, a hybrid that was very impressive, but the price I could negotiate on a Skoda Superb estate with very economical 1.4TSI petrol engine (I have averaged above 50 mpg in it) a high spec model with all the extras I wanted was over a third cheaper than the Passat.

 

I kept my last diesel estate for 15 years and I would be skeptical that the batteries in the Passat would last that long.

 

I was also worried that in the unlikely event of a serious accident the batteries are quite a hazzard.

The trouble with the UK at the moment is that the charger you are planning to use on your longer journey could easily not be working leading to extreme range anxiety!

 

I agree that far to many are out of action at any one time. It should be a very rare event for such simple devices.

 

I was also worried that in the unlikely event of a serious accident the batteries are quite a hazzard.

 

I don't see this as a problem. The batteries are low amidships between the wheels so well protected by the front and rear crumple zones. I see i.c cars are far more dangerous in this respect with their fuel tanks at the rear and the first thing to be impacted from behind. They sometimes burst into flames in high speed collisions, killing the occupants.

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I agree that far to many are out of action at any one time. It should be a very rare event for such simple devices.

 

 

 

I don't see this as a problem. The batteries are low amidships between the wheels so well protected by the front and rear crumple zones. I see i.c cars are far more dangerous in this respect with their fuel tanks at the rear and the first thing to be impacted from behind. They sometimes burst into flames in high speed collisions, killing the occupants.

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Most deaths and injuries are from impact, explodings cars are rare, except in movies.

Batteries don't explode but catch fire.

they explode if you throw them in a fire tho :D

Most deaths and injuries are from impact, explodings cars are rare, except in movies.

Batteries don't explode but catch fire.

 

I can't understand why your posted this reply? I made no mention of battery explosions.

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A big problem with electric cars is not so much range as range anxiety.

 

Would anyone buy a petrol car with a two or three gallon tank?

 

Short answer is 'no', even though the same arguments about rarely needing long range in one journey apply.

 

Short answer would be maybe, if I had a petrol pump at home. Then I could put fuel in it just like we do with our ev.

 

wheeler

As I said I really liked the Passat GTE estate, and it is a clever hybrid giving you potentially the best of both worlds, so no range anxiety and about a 30 mile electric range that for a lot of local journeys should be fine.

 

I just could not justify the extra cost. In fairness to VW I managed to use a Skoda scrapage scheme that gave me £4000 for my very used 165000 mile Peugeot 2003 HDI and then still managed to knock 15% off everything else, and VW although they were prepared to haggle a bit could not get close on a %off like for like basis.