Anyone heard of these brakes as I can’t find details anywhere. Z.STAR cable-pull disc brakes. They are terrible brakes for an ebike.

Given the weight of most ebikes Pete, a 4 pot is probably better than cable, or 2 pot.

Something like Deore 501/520 (lever and caliper numbers) would suit much better.

Like everything its a case of you get what you pay for, and when it comes to brakes, care must be taken and no scrimping allowed, as that is the single most most important part of a bike that saves you from serious injury or even death.

Branded cable disc brakes can be good, the Clarke's cable discs on my folding ebike work very well (once l set them up properly)

(once l set them up properly)

Really good point that some completely forget!

 

IMHO some people simply are not mechanically minded enought to set up mechanical disk brakes properly I, and others, have found.

And up to now (and I do not know any of the makes I have actually adjusted for people over some years, as I am simply not interested in even knowing), once someone with a better understanding of mechanics (not always me I hasten to add!),adjusts them, then suddenly the brakes start to work far better!

On some, it was necessary to replace the pads which were far beyond the end of their useful life, but the owner had not checked properly!

But one is either mechanically minded or not, it's that simple.

It would be interesting for me at least, if someone who really can set up mechanical disks, had a go at the brakes mentioned by the OP here, who could the say, they are good or not good, not just giving a dog a bad name!.....

Furthermore, for those NOT mechanically minded, then shell out for hydraulic brakes, as they are for many (but not for all!), easier to set up! Or go to an LBS for your brake adjustments.

Poor quality disks may have some effect on the apparent braking properties as well, though I have little experience in that area myself.

Though I have mentioned a few times that a metalurgist, whould not fit them the way many people do, even bike shops and manufacturers to!!

regards for a great weekend

Andy

Edited May 21, 20223 yr by Andy-Mat

To elaborate more on these wonderful (sic) brakes. I had no end of trouble with them. The major being when I was coming down a hill and the brakes failed to grip. I had them looked at 3 times by cycle technicians who adjusted them as well as myself adjusting them daily. When I spoke to the company who sold me the bike they were adamant that the brakes would need adjusting but I wouldn’t of thought this a problem but I was doing it daily

 

I have now changed to line actuated hydraulic brakes as one of my front brake pads actually fell out of the calliper. When I got the brakes changed we found there was no pin holding the brakes in just magnets. I am going to be writing a letter to the company to explain this and hopefully compensate me for the dodgy brakes.

(once l set them up properly)

"Once set up properly"

That is something i've heard about every single brake since the mid 80's lol. The anti V mob, canti fanboys claimed the exact same thing that cantis were just as good as V's, if set up properly when in fact the difference in power and stopping was stark. V's to discs we heard the exact same arguments. Bike forums full of arguing users and always thee same phrase if set up properly was their banner call lol.

 

 

There are better mechanical discs out there. These cost more obviously. They are slighly better and address some of the problems single sided and cable only disc brakes face, but again cannot - Repeat Cannot be compared to hydraulics.

The problems with most mechanical systems is theyre maintenance hungry, prone to power drop off, and really really unsuitable for anything other than a gentle bimble along the roads at 10mph.

 

 

 

 

Nowadays only those who live in a rose tinted fantasy world use the 'Properly set up' silliness.

Edited May 22, 20223 yr by AndyBike

The problems with most mechanical systems is theyre maintenance hungry, prone to power drop off, and really really unsuitable for anything other than a gentle bimble along the roads at 10mph.

 

So fine for at least 98% of the world's cyclists who never reach the terrifying speeds of over 15 mph.

 

Probably why some 98% of all bicycles have mechanical brakes and rim brakes ok for most of them.

.

I only have one bike (a tandem) with a mechanical disk brake. It's a TRP Spyke on the rear wheel and works very well. Adjustment took quite a bit of time and fiddling about with caliper alignment to get right, but once set up it has been very consistent. The twin piston design of the TRP was a big improvement over the single piston Tektro which was fitted originally.

 

I have never used hydraulic disk brakes, so can't comment on their effectiveness. To some extent, I feel hydraulic brakes on a bicycle smacks a little of a solution looking for a problem. My Shimano Ultegra dual-pivot rim brakes were quite capable of stopping my 1990's era racing bike from circa 50mph on descents. Perhaps hydraulic disks would have been even better, but I had no 'moments' with traditional brakes.

 

For me, dual pivot, v-brakes or cantilevers have provided more than enough stopping power with smooth modulation, so I've never felt the need to 'upgrade' to hydraulic. I am not denying that hydraulic may be better, but I've never found any of the other brake types particularly lacking in performance or ease of operation. I'd pick a V-brake over a cantilever for simple set up and overall better performance.

 

I probably am in the 'mechanically competent' category though and I do tend to (over?) maintain all my machinery to a fairly decent standard.

So fine for at least 98% of the world's cyclists who never reach the terrifying speeds of over 15 mp

98% ? more like grandma on her shopper lol

98% ? more like grandma on her shopper lol

 

Indeed, that's how most of the world cycles. Multi millions in Africa, India, China and most of the other Oriental countries, with South America, the Netherlands and Denmark often the same. If you think 10 mph slow, look at the Japanese grandmas who often cycle. For them it's around 6 mph, just enough to stay balanced.

 

Lots of cyclists Lycra clad, helmeted, grim faced with loads of effort is very much a uniquely British thing, and only since the 1980s since they never used to cycle that way in earlier decades.

.

That must be the reason Britain is the country it is. A little island, which rose to the top of the world.

British company Hope Technology, famed for their disc brakes and hubs, are industry leaders.

British Company Endura, known for their clothing, also are world leaders supplying a vast number of mountain bikers across the planet.

 

Can you name an Indian, or African, or Chinese company which holds such a reputation. I think not.

"Once set up properly"

That is something i've heard about every single brake since the mid 80's lol. The anti V mob, canti fanboys claimed the exact same thing that cantis were just as good as V's, if set up properly when in fact the difference in power and stopping was stark. V's to discs we heard the exact same arguments. Bike forums full of arguing users and always thee same phrase if set up properly was their banner call lol.

 

 

There are better mechanical discs out there. These cost more obviously. They are slighly better and address some of the problems single sided and cable only disc brakes face, but again cannot - Repeat Cannot be compared to hydraulics.

The problems with most mechanical systems is theyre maintenance hungry, prone to power drop off, and really really unsuitable for anything other than a gentle bimble along the roads at 10mph.

 

 

 

 

Nowadays only those who live in a rose tinted fantasy world use the 'Properly set up' silliness.

 

 

l didn't say cable disc brakes were as good as hydraulics, they're not.

 

What l meant was, once l set up my cable disc brakes properly (so the pads were aligned with the discs, cables adjusted, disc as close as possible to the inside pad) they worked well.

 

Before that, they were poor, and l looked at changing them. Now, they work well. Not as well as hydraulic, but they're okay.

Indeed, that's how most of the world cycles. Multi millions in Africa, India, China and most of the other Oriental countries, with South America, the Netherlands and Denmark often the same. If you think 10 mph slow, look at the Japanese grandmas who often cycle. For them it's around 6 mph, just enough to stay balanced.

 

Lots of cyclists Lycra clad, helmeted, grim faced with loads of effort is very much a uniquely British thing, and only since the 1980s since they never used to cycle that way in earlier decades.

.

I am the reverse of that in the 80's I was indeed the grim faced lycra clad, lots of effort cyclist. Now, when riding back from the farm shop on my ex post office bike, dressed in whatever I put on when I got up, 6 miles an hour will suffice. So my sturmey archer drum brakes are ideal.

The problems with most mechanical systems is theyre maintenance hungry, prone to power drop off, and really really unsuitable for anything other than a gentle bimble along the roads at 10mph.

 

Back in the late 70s and 80s, I used to bimble along on the roads at 20mph+, indeed on one ocaision was stopped by the Police, to be fair I was going over 30mph in a built up area. But speed limits did not apply.

 

The side pull brakes on my 27" wheeled road bike were definetly capable of locking the wheels, the main stoping issue was the friction between tyre and road.

 

OK, so hydraulics are good, but that does not make all the brakes that were safely used for many many years before the hydraulics suddenly 'usuitable'.

That must be the reason Britain is the country it is. A little island, which rose to the top of the world.

 

By force of arms and slavery. With that empire gone we have only been failing ever since.

 

Can you name an Indian, or African, or Chinese company which holds such a reputation. I think not.

 

Of course not, there's no market for such things for most of the world!

 

As for Hope and Endura, don't make me laugh. Most of the world won't even know who they are. They haven't exactly rescued our economy, in permanent decline from 1950 to today and still failing.

 

To succeed we need to make the things the whole world wants, as China does.

.

To succeed we need to make the things the whole world wants, as China does.

they made things that people made in their own countries and often of worse quality but sold them for a lot less. Over time, that lead to economy of scale and gradual improvements on both cost and quality, then onto innovations.

My first 'proper' bike was a Carlton International in the early 1970's. Wet weather stopping with centre-pull calipers on chromed rims was interesting to say the least. I think even the cheapest, nastiest bike sold today would have vastly superior stopping power.

 

l didn't say cable disc brakes were as good as hydraulics, they're not.

 

What l meant was, once l set up my cable disc brakes properly (so the pads were aligned with the discs, cables adjusted, disc as close as possible to the inside pad) they worked well.

 

Before that, they were poor, and l looked at changing them. Now, they work well. Not as well as hydraulic, but they're okay.

Good post.

My experiences are similar to yours, and I find them to be true of several brake problems (other too!) I was involved with, over some years, for people that did not have the foggiest of ideas.....

It constantly surprises me, even today, just how little some bike owners know about bikes of any type...... I am still first call for several people, mostly older Ladies, for when ANYTHING goes wrong with their bikes.

Brakes are probably the single most important part on any bike.....

I feel that most of us accept that cars are not understood by the majority of drivers, made worse by modern electronics and the like of course....but bikes are relatively simpler, IMHO, if you take the time to learn! Many don't, so your statement for me rings very true.....

regards for a great day

Andy

It constantly surprises me, even today, just how little some bike owners know about bikes of any type

 

I feel that most of us accept that cars are not understood by the majority of drivers, made worse by modern electronics and the like of course....but bikes are relatively simpler, IMHO, if you take the time to learn!

 

Absolutely agree - I find it quite amazing how little some people know about basic machinery and how to operate / fix it. What tends to get on my nerves a bit is the lack of effort (by some people) to try and understand & resolve a problem. I like the phrase: 'I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you'

 

Yours grumpily ......

l didn't say cable disc brakes were as good as hydraulics, they're not.

I know you didn't. I was replying to Lightnings post. Hence me quoting it specifically lol

 

 

OK, so hydraulics are good, but that does not make all the brakes that were safely used for many many years before the hydraulics suddenly 'unsuitable'.

Nope, dont think anyones claimed that any were unsafe. They had their flaws.

I initially used cantis - XT, but offroad they werent that good, in the dry yes they stopped you, but in the wet they didnt. I went from there to XTR V brakes, on ceramic rims, which gave better performance in the wet, if you didnt mind the shushshshsh sound.

But in offroad settings bitd we weren't moving at 25+mph

 

I've followed the developments of the canti. The different types, the small changes - for example the cable which first was seriously thickened, pre stretched, spring assists all developments designed to try to improve the power that was ok for general riding, but as the sport was developing, as peoples skills and confidence increased, we needed more reliable power in all weather conditions.

Cable stretch and give has always been a problem. Hydraulic has no effect like that, which is one of the main reasons hydraulics are used for braking systems, and not just on bicycles, but on cars, motorbike and other vehicles.

 

If you want a good example of how bad cable brakes were back in the day, go to you tube and watch the early XC racing. Most riders miss the turn and end up in the bushes or off the course because their brakes just didnt have the power to stop them effectively. Its actually quite funny to watch. And I've been there and done that, got the tshirt, and the bruises And all of those brakes were 'properly set up'.

Where did it go from there ?, what did the pros do, what systems did they use to combat the problem. Literally to a team they went onto magura hydraulic rim crushers. And from there to hydraulic disc brakes.

 

.But the problem here i feel is people like to hate. Its a holier than thou attitude. We don't use those they say in a dismissive sort of way. And to me who has ridden all the systems in a variety of situations, i find such attitude quite frankly ridiculous.

 

 

I pick and ride the safest option. Speed is nothing without control.

Current brakes are shimano 4 pots, which for pottering are pretty much ok.I like the way the price has come down and the power has gone up. But i'm changing those to Hopes new Tech 4 V4's on the thicker Ebike orientated rotors, and for the simple reason is that its a better development reflecting the ridding were doing, the increased weight of the bikes, the higher speeds people are reaching.

Modern brakes on bikes are generally very good, whatever type is fitted.

 

The brakes continue to work even with minimal or no maintenance.

 

Remember the days when you had to regularly adjust your rim brakes so the pads aligned with the rim? And if you got it wrong, or didn't carry out the adjustment as the pads wore down, the brake pads could actually come off the inside of the rim under heavy braking!

And when it rained they just didn't work.

 

Now, brakes work for years with occasional pad replacement (often left until they get noisy because the pads are completely shot) and a fluid change if they are lucky.

Edited May 24, 20223 yr by lightning

I know you didn't. I was replying to Lightnings post. Hence me quoting it specifically lol

 

Nope, dont think anyones claimed that any were unsafe. They had their flaws.

I initially used cantis - XT, but offroad they werent that good, in the dry yes they stopped you, but in the wet they didnt. I went from there to XTR V brakes, on ceramic rims, which gave better performance in the wet, if you didnt mind the shushshshsh sound.

 

But in offroad settings bitd we weren't moving at 25+mph

 

 

But brakes for downhill, off road and the like are reall different requirement than for road use;

"The problems with most mechanical systems is theyre maintenance hungry, prone to power drop off, and really really unsuitable for anything other than a gentle bimble along the roads at 10mph."

 

I always found side pull brakes on alloy rims completly adequate for fast road use. Although to be fair at 50mph+ a fair bit of care was needed with side pulls and not so much care needed with hydraulics.

 

"But i'm changing those to Hopes new Tech 4 V4's on the thicker Ebike orientated rotors, and for the simple reason is that its a better development reflecting the ridding were doing, the increased weight of the bikes, the higher speeds people are reaching"

 

Just been re-alligning my set of original Hope M4s for a new rear motor wheel. Jolly good brakes they are too.

Just been re-alligning my set of original Hope M4s for a new rear motor wheel. Jolly good brakes they are too.

Im a complete Hope tech nutter myself. They certainly make some of the nicest brakes about and all are serviceable. Unlike the likes of Shimano which are effectively a disposable system. It starts to leak, you only have the option of binning them.

Edited May 24, 20223 yr by AndyBike

Fabulous!!

My two 2011 Oxygen Emate City rear hub bikes have mechanical disc brakes with electric cut outs. The one I bought for a £100 from the classified section of this site had only been ridden 500 miles when I bought it in the Autumn of 2018.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/the-tale-of-a-%C2%A3100-second-hand-electric-bike.33079/#post-467114

 

The brakes had been well set up, and I used it to commute to work, 10 miles each way on the road. Used in this way on this journey the brakes worked very well and needed little adjustment.

 

This was because they did not get used that much as the bulk of the journey was cruising along between two towns on a b road with very little braking required.

 

Of course hydraulic brakes are better but the mechanical disc brakes with electric cut outs worked too well for a lazy me to be bothered to change them.

 

My other Oxygen Emate rear hub bike was bought by me brand new in 2011. It also has mechanical disc brakes with electric cut outs. I also bought this initially to ride to work and back on that same b road and again the brakes were fine.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/old-nag.41394/#post-619513

 

However, I started experimenting with a mix of road and off road. Off road my mechanical disc brakes were much less effective, and borderline inadequate when it was wet. I could adjust the front to be just ready to bite, and by the end of one wet ride the lever had come right in to the handlebar!

 

Now both these Oxygen Rear hub bikes still get regularly used for shopping trips and general errands. My son now uses the original one I bought to commute to his job in the centre of town. I live at the top of the hill with the town in the valley. I still do not have an issue about their stopping ability, but you do need to regularly adjust them.

 

However, adjusting them is so easy that it is hardly a chore, as is changing the pads which are cheap. I keep the correct size allen key on a shelf by the garage door, and a bag of replacement pads on the same shelf. A quick turn of the adjuster and your done.

 

Both these rear hub bikes are incredibly low maintenance as chains, cassettes and chain rings last years, and the brakes can be adjusted in under a minute by yourself. Then once in a while you change the pads, probably in less than 5 minutes. So no bike shop involved and my original Emate will be 11 years old in June. Now that is cheap transport.

 

There was a period when after changing the pads on my original Oxygen, and despite adjusting them, the performance had fallen away and they needed constant adjustment. I quickly realised that I had worn out the original discs and after buying a new set of amazon for about £11 and fitting them all was fine again.

 

However, I so enjoyed my experiment in riding to work off road that I bought entry level Yamaha Haibike in 2015, and that had hydraulic disc brakes, and there was no denying that they were far superior to the mechanical disc brakes and properly fit for purpose for off road riding in all conditions.

 

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/haibike-sduro-hardseven-sl-2015-yamaha-7-month-1600-miles.22644/

 

As you can see, I am not someone who keeps changing their bike! I carefully research generally the cheapest bikes that can do the job I want them to do, test ride them, buy the one I like best, and then maintain it and use it and use it and use it. Works for me.