The first e-bike I have ever got my hands on and tried...

 

Weeeeeeeeee!

 

I have read about the 'pedelec' panasonic system needing getting used to by people who are users of other systems. I took to this one immediately: it felt so natural to get the boost as a function of the work I was putting in.

 

And boy, didn't she just take off!

 

And she looks as good "in the flesh" as in the promotional pictures.

 

Quiet, sleek and beautifully engineered.

 

The integral light system with illuminated 'dash'.

 

<drool>.

 

Mike

Congratulations on your new bike Mike, I hope you get years of enjoyment from it.

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Many happy Km's Mike.

Congratulations on your new bike Mike, I hope you get years of enjoyment from it.

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Thanks for the good wishes and sentiments ... I was only test riding it!

 

I wonder how the Wisper 906 Alpino will compare - after feeling the power and continued assist to higher speeds of the Connect S, will anything else be able to match up to it?

 

Mike

Cycle Computer on Pro Connect S

 

Does anyone know if there are instructions for the cycle computer that is fitted to the Kalkhoff Pro Select S (2010 model)?

 

Is it possible to set the current time, or find out the trip time?

 

Regards,

 

Mike

Edited May 23, 201015 yr by PerpetualMotion

 

Thanks for the good wishes and sentiments ... I was only test riding it!

 

That's the saddest thing I've seen posted in the forum for a long time Mike.

 

How could you let go of it?

 

Hub motor bikes behave in a very different way from the Panasonic system, difficult to describe, so best tried for yourself asap to compare and appreciate how different they are.

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That's the saddest thing I've seen posted in the forum for a long time Mike.

 

How could you let go of it?

 

Isn't the pro connect S the really fast one you should only be riding off road with UK traffic laws?

 

If Mike is a teacher in Britain (I appreciate he could be in another more tolerant nation) I expect getting busted for a illegal e-bike is a career limiting move (especially as it would be unusual enough a "crime" to attract the attention of local and national reporters)... and all it would take is a rival in the staff room (or worse, even a pupil he's disciplined!) to tip off the cops..

 

and he gives the impression of being the sort of teacher this country needs..

 

if I were a teacher today (I nearly considered becoming one ) I wouldn't take the risk, and just get a normal ebike. Even then I'd be wary where I parked it in school. I suppose you could ride it through the corridors into class singing "to be a pilgrim" like the dude in the 1970s film "If"...

 

Isn't the pro connect S the really fast one you should only be riding off road with UK traffic laws?

needs..

 

Sort of, it's just over 20 mph assist. The version with the SRAM DualDrive is the really naughty one though, over 25 mph power assist.

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Ok, here is an "interesting" issue with the law, now that it has been brought up.

 

Have a look at, for example, this A2B bike. It is described as having an "off road" mode, which is obviously illegal for use on UK roads. It is a switch that can be activated and if it is not activated the bike is operating legally.

 

The Pro Connect S does not have an "off road" switch per se, but it does have the option of no power assist. It is light enough to cycle faily easily around without power assist. Being a fairly fit cyclist, and used to cycling around with a 13 kg child on the back seat mounted behind me, I was able to attain my regular cycling speeds of over 20 mph on straights and gentle slopes without any power assist, and get it up to over 30 mph on a couple of nice gentle descents for an extended period.

 

So, my line of thinking continues thus: Why is the Pro Connect S illegal to cycle on a regular road without power assist, while the A2B with its off road facility is not? After all, both contain the potential of generating illegal power assist at higher speeds, but these are activated at the discretion of the cyclist.

 

Surely then, in a "test" case, if a cyclist was hauled over under suspicion of operating the bike illegally, the law could be shown either to be inconsistent, or, if a prosecution for illegal cycling of these bikes in "off road" states where to be successful, it would have to be proven that the cyclist was using that assist at the time of being caught.

 

Since I am unaware of the cycle computers/micro processors carrying any "data recorder" indicating power settings at particular times, it would be a difficult thing to prove.

 

Interesting theoretical musings...

 

Mike

Edited May 23, 201015 yr by PerpetualMotion

 

So, my line of thinking continues thus: Why is the Pro Connect S illegal to cycle on a regular road without power assist, while the A2B with its off road facility is not? After all, both contain the potential of generating illegal power assist at higher speeds, but these are activated at the discretion of the cyclist.

 

Mike

 

The A2B is just as illegal Mike since the EAPC regulations are for the bikes legality, not the rider behaviour. However, many are using illegal bikes on UK roads anyway, such as these I know of:

 

Swizzbee, S Class Pro Connects and Flyers, derestricted eZee models like the Torq 1 and some F models, derestricted Wisper 905se, 350 watt BionX, Cyclones over 250 watts, Crystalytes ditto, various Chinese Direct Drive motors around 1000 to 1500 watts etc.

 

It's a mess which I doubt will ever be properly got to grips with.

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So that A2B featured on the Gadget Show was illegally ridden by Jason?

 

FiveFWD - Episode 4 - Urban Challenge by The Gadget Show's Dionne South

 

Or was his model different?

 

Hmmm!

its the same sort of anomaly you get in Britain as to how it was (and to an extent still is) perfectly legal to buy packages of white powder containing powerful stimulant drugs for "research purposes", but its illegal to take them to get high! Of course this law is widely disregarded but actually doesn't cause much of a problem until people overdo it and get ill especially really young teenagers..

 

with ebikes the fast ones are currently ridden by sensible older people and cost a lot of cash so are unlikely to cause problems, but maybe in a few years younger more reckless people might be able to afford them and then problems start (as has already happened in the Asian countries with more awareness and more of a DIY culture).

 

So that A2B featured on the Gadget Show was illegally ridden by Jason?

 

Presumably.

 

Following from what Alex said, almost all e-bikes in China are used at illegally high speeds, and only now are the authorities starting to try to bring some control. The whole iissue of e-bike law flouting is an international problem, only mainland Europe fairly law abiding.

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Edited May 23, 201015 yr by flecc

I like to think of myself as a sensible older person

 

Mike

Presumably.

 

Following from what Alex said, almost all e-bikes in China are used at illegally high speeds, and only now are the authorities starting to try to bring some control.

 

and that only because traffic levels mean people are crashing into one another and getting hurt (usually its a fast ebike crashing into unpowered cyclists )

 

The Chinese adopted a surprisingly laissez-faire attitude to ebikes, even more controlling nations like Singapore did until the prangs started occuring..

 

The whole iissue of e-bike law flouting is an international problem, only mainland Europe fairly law abiding.

.

 

mainland Europe does have the advantage of better infrastructure for two-wheelers, plus more sensible attitudes to licensing small mopeds/scooters for new/younger riders (i.e the CBT-style test now required in the EU does not run out after two years like in the UK!) so there isn't much of a desire or need to ride an illegally fast ebike.

the same distances are supplied for the pro connect s and the Agattu..ie 30-50 miles (dependent on variables ) but surely this can't be the case given the pro connect s extra speed ?. Would it not be the case that the pro connect s is likely to achieve 25 miles tops like an adapted Agattu (11 tooth sprocket) ?

the same distances are supplied for the pro connect s and the Agattu..ie 30-50 miles (dependent on variables ) but surely this can't be the case given the pro connect s extra speed ?. Would it not be the case that the pro connect s is likely to achieve 25 miles tops like an adapted Agattu (11 tooth sprocket) ?

 

Most users of the equivalent Flyer S models report about 25 miles range when using the full performance. The consumption rate is indeed higher, but partially repaid by the higher average speeds, this balancing the slightly higher motor power. Ridden for economy as an Agattu has to be to get 50 miles, the S model is likely to greatly improve on the 25 miles since it would then be performing similarly to the Agattu.

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legal illigal sooo what

 

its the same sort of anomaly you get in Britain as to how it was (and to an extent still is) perfectly legal to buy packages of white powder containing powerful stimulant drugs for "research purposes", but its illegal to take them to get high! Of course this law is widely disregarded but actually doesn't cause much of a problem until people overdo it and get ill especially really young teenagers..

 

with ebikes the fast ones are currently ridden by sensible older people and cost a lot of cash so are unlikely to cause problems, but maybe in a few years younger more reckless people might be able to afford them and then problems start (as has already happened in the Asian countries with more awareness and more of a DIY culture).

 

If technical limits are imposed on ebikes to limit their application ie going faster than 15 mph, must pedal to activate motor, limit motor to 250 kwatts etc. then the legilators would have to put limitors and govenors on Aston Martins and Ford Kai's. It's the same thing.

If I take my ebike onto a private track then I should be able to coast with power at 20 mph. Surely, thats not too much to ask? Is It?

 

A quick poll around my youger colleagues suggests they wouldn't be seen dead on a Ebike. Well thats their loss isn't it?

 

I did point out that I probabely get work using less power than the use of a starter motor to start their cars but I suppose you can't romance your girlfriend on the back of a pushbike.

If technical limits are imposed on ebikes to limit their application ie going faster than 15 mph, must pedal to activate motor, limit motor to 250 kwatts etc. then the legilators would have to put limitors and govenors on Aston Martins and Ford Kai's. It's the same thing.

 

. Nice try!

 

Not the same thing at all of course, the Aston Martin driver has to pass a driving test, insure the vehicle to protect third parties, and register it so that he can be traced from it's number plate.

 

If you care to get type approval for your e-bike for the moped class, register and insure it, attach the number plate and take a CBT and P class driving test, you can then exceed 15.5 mph power assisted! That is the same thing.

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If what you want is a bicycle, the 15mph powered limit is no problem.

 

I ride my Tasman most of the time at 16-20 mph, you just have to pedal and you can go as fast as you like.

 

As Flecc says, you are perfectly at liberty to get as powerful a bike as you wish. There are electric motorcycles capable of over 60mph, probably a lot more. But you do have to have insurance and so on.

 

If what you want is a fast bike without insurance, registration and so on, it's not going to happen. For those who say the limit should be 20mph, that argument can be turned around to read the limit should be 10mph.

 

It'll never suit everybody but it seems to me that 15mph is reasonable.

I like to think of myself as a sensible older person

 

Mike

 

To live outside of the law you have to be honest (Bob Dylan. 68 today:p )

. Nice try!

 

Not the same thing at all of course, the Aston Martin driver has to pass a driving test, insure the vehicle to protect third parties, and register it so that he can be traced from it's number plate.

 

If you care to get type approval for your e-bike for the moped class, register and insure it, attach the number plate and take a CBT and P class driving test, you can then exceed 15.5 mph power assisted! That is the same thing.

.

 

The Aston Martin must not exceed 70mph. It is not governed to that speed. I agree with all else you said but the point is that to ride on British roads we all should be subject to safety legislation. To exceed 70 mph in a car is far more serious offence than not using pedals to activate a motor that will assist the rider. So power assist (twist and go) I feel should be available to ebike riders.

As said though, since we are not traceable (no number plates), the vehicle has to be restricted. There's no need to restrict the AM since it can be trapped remotely as they sometimes are by Gatsos and the like, and the driver punished as necessary.

 

The throttle issue is related to the intent of cyclemotor law, that the e-bike should in every respect remain a bicycle, just aided by the motor. That means all power availability is by pedalling. The moment an independently functioning throttle is added, the bicycle becomes a pedal assisted very low powered motor cycle instead, the reverse of the law's intent.

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