If a car driver saw a cyclist as a person, they would in most cases be less willing to put at risk their lives.

 

Ah lemmy, indeed so. And if you could extend that awareness of all people seeing all other people as that, other people, then we really would be on the road to a better world.

 

But in the meantime I would still advocate the flashing lights (and bright jackets). They do work, as a wake-up call, by taking hold of the driver's sleepy reality inside the metal box and disturbing it. Enormously loud noise will do a similar job, but the problem with that is that it's hard to say where the noise is coming from. A bright flashing light DEMANDS the attention of the dozing (or dozey) driver.

 

But I am marching behind your banner, lemmy.

 

Allen

Ad campaign

 

 

If a car driver saw a cyclist as a person, they would in most cases be less willing to put at risk their lives.

 

Maybe we need to copy the recent motorcycling ad campaign. We should all wear bright yellow jackets with a light reflectant strip across the back, like the police wear. But instead of 'police' we should have words like 'mother' , 'son', 'brother', 'uncle', 'friend' etc. Maybe that would get their attention. And anybody with the funds to do a radio campaign ad at the same time whilst they are listening in their cars?

They would not miss this, 1850 lumens and flashing mode. But check out the price

 

Lupine Lighting Systems - Helmetlights - Betty 14

Unless they're mentally challenged (and some are) I'm fairly convinced that car drivers do see cyclists as people. The problem we have is the same as the one pedestrians and other car drivers have - people making mistakes and doing dumb things. I'm convinced you can make yourself more visible than the christmas tree at the German market on a dark December night and still not be seen by the one that hits you.

BTW I've written my name on my own vehicle so I should be OK..

I`m always pointing out to my wife the way cyclists(and pedestrians) go along darkish country lanes where they pass from sunlight to shadow and choose to wear clothes that could have been made to blend in with the surroundings. You really do have to stand out from the trees etc to be seen.

 

BTW as a future education to car drivers, when one comes up behind and holds back where it`s not safe to overtake me I always wave them on when it`s safe for them to pass and always give a thanking jesture hoping that my good manners will keep them as patient in the future. My thank you is the reward for there patience.

Edited August 9, 201015 yr by Old Timer

Inevitably, my smugness with yellow jackets etc. came before a fall.

 

Two lanes. Traffic lights. Traffic stationery in outer lane. I took inside lane, slowing to stop at red light.

 

Just as I got to the rear of (also inevitably) a white van, it decided not only to take my lane, but to cut right across it and take a left turn feeder lane instead.

 

I had my light on (not flashing yet, hasn't arrived), yellow jacket, white helmet, so was fairly conspicuous, but not quite conspicuous enough for said white van man.

 

I stopped, just, before he stopped me, and I yelled, but by that time he was away, quite probably never having looked in his wing mirror so blissfully unaware.

 

Another lesson learned, I suppose.

 

 

A.

As someone pointed out, marking you out as not being an ordinary cyclist might help the motorist with their respect issues.

 

E.G. if you happen on a cyclist with POLICE on the back of his/her high viz jacket, you automatically take more note and have a little more respect (well most regular people do), the same goes for PARAMEDIC, DOCTOR, FIRE etc.

 

I wonder if there is something that we could use ourselves, or if someone is prepared to try it as an experiment possibly in a busy city and on country lanes?

 

There is a sub-set of motorcyclists that enjoy riding motorbikes that are either ex-police or marked up very closely to resemble a police bike and drivers really do start to behave themselves when they spot these characters. Amongt the motorbike community these riders are classed mainly as nobs, but from a safety point of view, you can't fault them. To emulate police as a cyclists would have the same effect no doubt and it would be interesting to see the effect, you don't need to go the whole hog, but to wear some gear that might make you look like police on first glance might have an effect on the motorist.

Edited August 9, 201015 yr by eTim

As someone pointed out, marking you out as not being an ordinary cyclist might help the motorist with their respect issues.

 

E.G. if you happen on a cyclist with POLICE on the back of his/her high viz jacket, you automatically take more note and have a little more respect (well most regular people do), the same goes for PARAMEDIC, DOCTOR, FIRE etc.

 

I wonder if there is something that we could use ourselves, or if someone is prepared to try it as an experiment possibly in a busy city and on country lanes?

 

There is a sub-set of motorcyclists that enjoy riding motorbikes that are either ex-police or marked up very closely to resemble a police bike and drivers really do start to behave themselves when they spot these characters. Amongt the motorbike community these riders are classed mainly as nobs, but from a safety point of view, you can't fault them. To emulate police as a cyclists would have the same effect no doubt and it would be interesting to see the effect, you don't need to go the whole hog, but to wear some gear that might make you look like police on first glance might have an effect on the motorist.

 

Personally I wouldn't want to have Police printed on my back around here, I'd be more likely to be a target for getting smooshed !

But in the meantime I would still advocate the flashing lights (and bright jackets).

 

Seriously though, does any commuting cyclist not wear fluorescent these days? Every regular cyclist I see does round my way. You'd have to be stupid or have a death wish not to. I once saw a guy round my way (one off, probably dead now) cycling along in all black with no lights on at dusk. I had to double take I was so shocked.

 

The trouble is that being seen is only part of the battle (but the most important part in my opinion). Driver's impatience and self belief in their ability to "just" miss you is the part you can't do anything about. I'm glad I don't live down south though, every time I get anywhere near the M25 it seems like sanity goes out the window and you're lucky to escape with your life, and that's in a car! God knows how you south easteners survive on bikes. I take my hat off to you.

Personally I wouldn't want to have Police printed on my back around here, I'd be more likely to be a target for getting smooshed !

 

What about ARMY ??

Seriously though, does any commuting cyclist not wear fluorescent these days? Every regular cyclist I see does round my way. You'd have to be stupid or have a death wish not to. I once saw a guy round my way (one off, probably dead now) cycling along in all black with no lights on at dusk. I had to double take I was so shocked.

 

The trouble is that being seen is only part of the battle (but the most important part in my opinion). Driver's impatience and self belief in their ability to "just" miss you is the part you can't do anything about. I'm glad I don't live down south though, every time I get anywhere near the M25 it seems like sanity goes out the window and you're lucky to escape with your life, and that's in a car! God knows how you south easteners survive on bikes. I take my hat off to you.

Most commuters I see do not wear flourescent clothing, they have good lights for poor visability but wearing yellow doesn't help much.

It's not just Londoners, whilst commuting through the peaceful village of Mountsorrel in Leicestershire last year I got done twice in 2 weeks. First time sent totally over the bars by a woman pulling out of a side road, and the second time was almost unbelievable. I was knocked off the road by a police community support officer car.

 

Both occasions I was in a painted cycle lane, after this I road out of the lane on the road and survived unscathed for many more months. Weird.

There is a nasty tendency in England for people to take the point of view that if you are not wearing a yellow jacket, have flashing lamps in daylight etc, that somehow any accident you have is 'your own fault'.

 

It's essentially a paternalistic view 'if only you would listen to me your life would be better'. Anyone who is familiar with Orwell will know the pattern.

 

Accidents happen and always will. The cause is usually lack of care and/ or attention and cyclists, being human, are subject to it too.

 

A week ago a biker was sent flying by a car pulling out of the junction where my road meets the main road. He wasn't badly hurt, luckily, though the bike was heavily damaged. This was a large Honda bike with fairing and daylight headlamp. The rider wore a yellow jacket. If the driver says he didn't see the bike, he is lying or blind - he did look down the road and such a bike is unmissable.

 

As far as I could tell, what happened was the the car driver was more concerned with getting across the junction quickly than the bikers safety, so he took a chance. And the biker lost, as they and cyclists usually do.

 

One thing is certain. If the car driver had felt his own life was seriously threatened he would not have done it. If the bike was perceived as a 'threat' to his own well being he would have 'seen' it.

I was knocked off the road by a police community support officer car.

 

 

Says it all really........

 

 

Most commuters I see do not wear flourescent clothing, they have good lights for poor visability but wearing yellow doesn't help much.

 

 

Your joking! right?

 

So all the construction workers and motorway staff and vehicles have got it wrong then:confused:

Your joking! right?

 

So all the construction workers and motorway staff and vehicles have got it wrong then:confused:

 

I have to say I admire your blind faith in the sagacity of officialdom

 

Why do you think that someone who cannot see a moving object 6 feet high by 2 feet wide no more than 15 feet from them, will see it any better if a part of it is coloured yellow?

 

If someone cannot see an object that size, they must surely be walking into lamp posts, walls, parking meters all the time.

will see it any better if a part of it is coloured yellow?

 

It's not yellow we're talking about Lemmy, it's high-visibility clothing which is normally fluorescent. Fluorescent is a lot more visible than a normal colour such as yellow. That's the reason why why it is worn in high risk areas such as on building sites.

 

Are you seriously asking if someone would be more likely to notice a person in a high-visibility jacket than a person wearing a dark jacket???

It's not yellow we're talking about Lemmy, it's high-visibility clothing which is normally fluorescent. Fluorescent is a lot more visible than a normal colour such as yellow. That's the reason why why it is worn in high risk areas such as on building sites.

 

Are you seriously asking if someone would be more likely to notice a person in a high-visibility jacket than a person wearing a dark jacket???

 

If being seen is so important why don't cyclists have flashing orange lights on top of poles?

Reflective stuff is good at night but I think people put too much faith in high viz.

If being seen is so important why don't cyclists have flashing orange lights on top of poles?

Reflective stuff is good at night but I think people put too much faith in high viz.

 

You cannot beat defensive riding and being aware of what's going on around you, my favorite saying is :- don't look where you're going, look where you're going to go. Treat all other road users as if they want to kill you (especially if your user name is Grizzly bear on Pedelecs forum and you wind people up !!!)

 

Griz

You cannot beat defensive riding..... Treat all other road users as if they want to kill you

 

 

Absolutely, Grizzly. The same certainly goes for driving a car, and quite possibly being a pedestrian, too.

 

 

A.

Also fully agreed Griz, defensive riding and driving too, is always best.

.

Also fully agreed Griz, defensive riding and driving too, is always best.

.

 

Tony you know what these days it's defensive everything, even posting on this forum hey?

 

Griz

Tony you know what these days it's defensive everything, even posting on this forum hey?

 

Griz

 

Yes, I found that out years ago!

.

Defensive riding and driving go hand in hand, organizations like the IAM do a lot of work to promote this, shame more people do not take it up

 

Welcome to IAM Cycling! | Welcome

If being seen is so important why don't cyclists have flashing orange lights on top of poles?

Reflective stuff is good at night but I think people put too much faith in high viz.

 

Mussels, being seen IS important, you know it, I know it, and everyone on this board knows it. High-viz is the easiest way to maximise visibility in daylight. If you don't want to wear it, fine, but please don't try and underplay its importance for cyclists.

 

I do agree that flashing lights are a good idea, even in daylight, although I'm not sure of the advantage of poles. I think eye level would capture most attention since that's where most of us look. Anything that catches attention can only do good!