Any chance you'll be cheaper than Onbike, John?

 

Hi again DB,

 

Sorry, prices are not finalised yet, but I am fairly sure they will not be more expensive.

Hi John. 800 charges would certainly be very impressive. Would 3 years be a realistic time frame for 60% of capacity ? Do you envisage that time frame increasing in the future, like the panasonic batteries ?

 

My only reluctance to take the double battery option is economic. I can certainly see the logic of running both, but I suppose I try to manage the single battery without thrashing it. I manage up to 40 miles on just the one, any further and I'd take the car I think. These batteries have a finite time frame don't they and if you look after 1 would 2 last that much longer ?

 

Incidently, how much are your 14ah batteries ? Are there any plans for an 18ah battery ?

 

All the best with the new venture.

 

Steve.

 

Ps. I think I bought my ezee off you just over a year ago. Best money I ever spent. It's been quite a revelation to me

 

Hi again Steve,

 

I believe 3 years could be possible, but there are too many variables to be able to say with certainty that any battery will last that long.

 

For your situation, one battery is clearly giving the performance to meet your needs, so a second battery may not be worth the extra expense.

 

As I have mentioned previously, my prices are not finalised yet, but they will be competitive.

eZee is a progressive company, evolutionary rather than revolutionary, sorry to be vague but all I can say at the moment is that there are new developments on the horizon.

 

Thank you for your wishes Steve.

Well, I took the Cadence out for a short 5-mile run this afternoon. The route is a good mix of flat and suburban hills (one or two steepish gradients too).

 

Seemed a bit lacking in pace compared to what I remember, certainly, and sure enough, by the time I got to the last hill (a gentle climb over a railway bridge) I got some cutting out.

 

My commute is seven miles, and a fair bit of steady climbing on the way home, so it looks like like I am definitely in a replace it position.

Hi again DB,

 

Do you mean replace the bike or battery? Obviously if you are happy with the bike itself the best option is a new battery.

 

It's a pity we are not closer, you could have tried one of my newer batteries.

John,

 

Well, the replacement battery does not necessarily seem the best option here. I am fully confident that it will transform my bike, and I am reassured that the batteries are much better than they used to be.

 

But it's £400-£500 - nearly 50% of what I paid for the bike. As I said above, for the same money I could get a £1000 bike through Cyclescheme and spread the cost interest free to boot. Maybe even get a model with lower spares costs?

 

And, as a minor point, I have to bear in mind that my first generation Lithium Ion battery was in effect a failed eZee experiment - an experiment that I was not advised of before I participated, and my dealer (50Cycles) has long parted ways with eZee. So that does put an additional pause on dropping such a large sum on a new one - yes, I understand that the initial problems have been solved, but even a three year life is a heck of a running cost on the bike, given the investment required for the battery.

 

So that's where I am - but no snap decisions. I am going to try the full commute with a recharge at each end first before I decide what to do.

Batterys

 

Hi

 

You can buy now from

 

The link below but remember to add the duty and vat 25 %

 

so about £800 Massive price ???

 

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/B3614LiM-EZ_Kit.jpg

 

 

I would Buy a shrink battery from BMS china and fit pannier bags and drop the battery in one bag It says LIFEpo4 so looking at 2,000 charge Cycles

 

80% capacity

 

With 4 amp charger Weight 5.5 kilos

 

 

36V 15Ah LiFePO4 Shrink Tube EBike Battery Pack - BMSBATTERY

 

you may get a small bill say £ 30 from the courier

 

15 AH Battery and charger about £250 delivered including the £30

 

pay by paypal you money is then safe

 

If you want super long range buy 2 mount in both pannier bags 30 AH WOW 100 miles ++++ just swop battery plug when one runs out then turn around and return home

 

Hope this is off interest

 

Frank

That certainly looks interesting, Frank - thanks.

 

It raises 2 points for me, though:

 

1) I have NO clue how to connect that up to my eZee. Mine has a battery holder with terminals at the bottom - I would imagine wiring and soldering would be required to get the bike's system connected to a pannier battery. That's not in my skill set.

 

2) If that's how much a raw 15 Ah battery costs, I don't understand why an eZee battery is double that price.

 

David.

Edited April 9, 201115 yr by DBCohen

Hi

 

You can buy now from

 

The link below but remember to add the duty and vat 25 %

 

so about £800 Massive price ???

 

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/B3614LiM-EZ_Kit.jpg

 

 

I would Buy a shrink battery from BMS china and fit pannier bags and drop the battery in one bag It says LIFEpo4 so looking at 2,000 charge Cycles

 

80% capacity

 

With 4 amp charger Weight 5.5 kilos

 

 

36V 15Ah LiFePO4 Shrink Tube EBike Battery Pack - BMSBATTERY

 

you may get a small bill say £ 30 from the courier

 

15 AH Battery and charger about £250 delivered including the £30

 

pay by paypal you money is then safe

 

If you want super long range buy 2 mount in both pannier bags 30 AH WOW 100 miles ++++ just swop battery plug when one runs out then turn around and return home

 

Hope this is off interest

 

Frank

 

Hi Frank,

 

You are not quite comparing like with like. If, and I know David is understandably looking at other options, if he wanted get his eZee Cadence up and running properly, all he needs is an eZee battery sourced from the UK for £400 inc. Vat and no import duty. Oh, and weighing just 3.2 Kg.

He does not need to buy a kit which includes items he does not need and have it shipped from Canada.

 

BTW, last time I looked, Vat was 20% not 25

That certainly looks interesting, Frank - thanks.

 

It raises 2 points for me, though:

 

1) I have NO clue how to connect that up to my eZee. Mine has a battery holder with terminals at the bottom - I would imagine wiring and soldering would be required to get the bike's system connected to a pannier battery. That's not in my skill set.

 

2) If that's how much a raw 15 Ah battery costs, I don't understand why an eZee battery is double that price.

 

David.

 

Hi David,

 

Firstly, I am not trying to sell you a battery...............yet;) So I have nothing to gain from the advice I am offering.

 

The batteries Frank is suggesting may be an option to consider, but you would certainly have some wiring to do, suitable panniers that would offer protection to the battery and connectors to buy.

 

Yes, the BMS batteries are considerably cheaper than an eZee battery, but, as you say they are "raw", not built into a rigid protective case and I see no mention of warranty?

 

The old unreliable eZee batteries manufactured Phylion, were discontinued more than 2 years ago.

 

The current eZee batteries have a proven reliable track record and come with warranty, so what price peace of mind and no hassle?

Hi Aldby

 

No I am not comparing like for like the one I recommend is LIFEPo4 three the life off the Li-ion battery But heaver

 

I also Have nothing to gain from the advice

 

we all have budgets so I try and help members with keeping within them

 

 

 

 

 

Vat 20 % Duty 6% so should be 26%

 

And well done on supplying soon the ezee kits

 

 

the more off us selling kits the better for the E bike market

 

We will have to meet some day we are not far away

 

 

 

 

 

Frank

Edited April 9, 201115 yr by banbury frank

Hi Frank. The BMS battery looks an interesting option at £250, though I can certainly see the benefits of the standard batteries too. Are there any links anywhere for wiring diagrams for these BMS batteries ? How would you go about wiring one to a bike with standard ezee battery connectors ? I have limited electrical knowledge, but am eager to learn. Surely it can't be so difficult with the right bits. Thanks, Steve.

Hi

 

I m not a specialist in ezee

 

But Aldby is I sure he will help

 

 

Cant be hard there will be a red and black wire gowning into the controller

 

Battery feed

 

 

 

 

Frank

Hi Aldby

 

We will have to meet some day we are not far away

 

Frank

 

Hi Frank, yes it would be good to meet up for a face to face chat

rather than just via the forum, like you say we are not too far apart. I'm quite busy over the next 2 weeks, but I could probably make it to you the following week?

 

Please call me John.

Hi Frank. The BMS battery looks an interesting option at £250, though I can certainly see the benefits of the standard batteries too. Are there any links anywhere for wiring diagrams for these BMS batteries ? How would you go about wiring one to a bike with standard ezee battery connectors ? I have limited electrical knowledge, but am eager to learn. Surely it can't be so difficult with the right bits. Thanks, Steve.

 

I have sent you a PM Steve.

Hi David,

 

...

 

The old unreliable eZee batteries manufactured Phylion, were discontinued more than 2 years ago.

 

The current eZee batteries have a proven reliable track record and come with warranty, so what price peace of mind and no hassle?

 

Well, the price is £400, obviously No comment from anyone as to what eZee puts into a raw £250 battery to justify a £400 pricetag?

 

My point is this - eZee may have discontinued their Phylion batteries a while back, but they sold me one, and I have never heard from them or 50Cycles about the problems with that battery. I now read that many people got ex-warranty replacements or trade-ins - would have done much for my customer relationship with them if that sort offer had been more widely available rather than requiring me to be in the know.

 

So, I have a duff battery, that was bad from the off. Now I have to pay eZee/Onbike a pretty large sum to get me back on the road. And I am aware that I was a "beta tester" for their first attempt at Li-Ion batteries. Does not really dispose me to go down that route, to be honest.

 

That £400 will require me 2-3 months to save up, meaning I lose most of the summer of biking. Other routes will get me going more quickly and more cheaply.

 

Long and the short of it is that while I like the bike itself, I am not hugely happy that eZee has in part put me in this position. John, as a future eZee dealer, what's your attitude to all that? Am I being unfair, or do I have a point?

I bought my bike just over a year ago, and the dealer included a Phylion battery from 2007, with the tamper seal broken. The packs inside weren't secured properly and I had a lot of trouble with losing power, until I secured it properly. It also gives less than half the advertised range, although the battery hasn't declined since I've owned it. The dealer couldn't care less about it.

 

When the time comes, I will be getting a pack sent over from China, and fit it myself, can't trust UK dealers now and it is very expensive.

Well, the price is £400, obviously No comment from anyone as to what eZee puts into a raw £250 battery to justify a £400 pricetag?

 

My point is this - eZee may have discontinued their Phylion batteries a while back, but they sold me one, and I have never heard from them or 50Cycles about the problems with that battery. I now read that many people got ex-warranty replacements or trade-ins - would have done much for my customer relationship with them if that sort offer had been more widely available rather than requiring me to be in the know.

 

So, I have a duff battery, that was bad from the off. Now I have to pay eZee/Onbike a pretty large sum to get me back on the road. And I am aware that I was a "beta tester" for their first attempt at Li-Ion batteries. Does not really dispose me to go down that route, to be honest.

 

That £400 will require me 2-3 months to save up, meaning I lose most of the summer of biking. Other routes will get me going more quickly and more cheaply.

 

Long and the short of it is that while I like the bike itself, I am not hugely happy that eZee has in part put me in this position. John, as a future eZee dealer, what's your attitude to all that? Am I being unfair, or do I have a point?

 

Hi David,

 

OK, I will try and answer your questions to the best of my ability and from the facts as I understand them.

 

Firstly price, eZee battery prices are in line with those of other major electric bike manufacturers and slightly less than a few I could mention and half the price of those supplied by a certain Canadian company which uses exactly the same cells from the same production line.

 

As for the original Phylion battery problems, I don't know how 50cycles as the UK distributors back then dealt with the issue. What I do know from a very highly respected and completely unbiased member of the forum is that eZee shipped out 1000 free replacement batteries, if you look back in this thread you find that fact.

 

eZee certainly did not knowingly sell batteries that would not live up to expectations, that would have been commercial suicide for a company that is in this business for the long haul and not just out to make a quick buck.

 

A few questions if I may David, your answers may help me to answer you more fully:

 

1. Did the battery fail in your first year of ownership and within what was the warranty period at that time?
   
2. If it did fail, did you report the matter to the supplier at the time, 50cycles?
   
3. If you did report the failure to 50cycles, how was the matter dealt with?

I bought my bike just over a year ago, and the dealer included a Phylion battery from 2007, with the tamper seal broken. The packs inside weren't secured properly and I had a lot of trouble with losing power, until I secured it properly. It also gives less than half the advertised range, although the battery hasn't declined since I've owned it. The dealer couldn't care less about it.

 

When the time comes, I will be getting a pack sent over from China, and fit it myself, can't trust UK dealers now and it is very expensive.

 

Hi Synthman,

 

Would you like to name names and provide a bit more information, i.e.

 

What brand of bike did you buy?

Was it a new bike?

Which dealer did you buy it from?

Did you know at the time of purchase that the battery was 3 years old?

Hi Synthman,

 

Would you like to name names and provide a bit more information, i.e.

 

What brand of bike did you buy?

Was it a new bike?

Which dealer did you buy it from?

Did you know at the time of purchase that the battery was 3 years old?

 

1: The brand of my bike is in my signature.

2: It was a new bike.

3: Poweredbicycles.co.uk (a.k.a. Scattergoods).

4: No.

 

Firstly price, eZee battery prices are in line with those of other major electric bike manufacturers and slightly less than a few I could mention and half the price of those supplied by a certain Canadian company which uses exactly the same cells from the same production line.

 

No idea who that Canadian company is, John, but let's call a spade a spade, eh? If their pricing is a matter of records, say who they are?

 

Pricing in line with everyone else is not really an explanation - what value are they adding to justify the mark up, apart from fitting their own bikes? Is their pricing fair, or is it the Gillette Razor/Printer Ink Cartridge of profit clawback on consumables?

 

As you know, I am considering a Juicy - their batteries are £225 for a 10Ah.

 

As for the original Phylion battery problems, I don't know how 50cycles as the UK distributors back then dealt with the issue. What I do know from a very highly respected and completely unbiased member of the forum is that eZee shipped out 1000 free replacement batteries, if you look back in this thread you find that fact.

 

That's EXACTLY my point, John. 1000 devices is pretty much a recall - I am a little stung that they didn't contact ALL of their customers, rather than just the ones who got in touch with them.

 

A few questions if I may David, your answers may help me to answer you more fully:

 

1. Did the battery fail in your first year of ownership and within what was the warranty period at that time?
   
2. If it did fail, did you report the matter to the supplier at the time, 50cycles?
   
3. If you did report the failure to 50cycles, how was the matter dealt with?

 

No, it didn't fail in year 1 - I used my bike for 5 months that year and then closed down for the winter. The batteries had a 6 month warranty. Funny that they have two year warranties now...

 

The following year, it did seem to be lasting less - It was hard for me to be sure because my commute is well under the batteries range, but I was seeing a red light more often. I emailed 50Cycles and got no response. I then saw that 50Cycles had ceased selling all eZee products. I presume that this was around the time their spat with eZee came to a head and they parted ways.

 

Since that time I have not had much of a chance to use that bike, so it has been in storage. The battery has been well cared for, stored in a cool place and charged every now and again. However, looks like all of that was a waste of time as it was a lemon to start with.

 

As I said, my issue here is that I just don't feel that eZee as a supplier has done all it could in respect of these bad batteries. 50Cycles have also been pretty unfortunate in just jettisoning their eZee customers. I don't know what the terms of their disagreement with eZee was, but it looks like many of us lost out as a result.

 

I love e-biking, but £400 every year or two (or even three) for batteries is one heck of a running cost. That I feel like a bit of a guinea pig makes it less easy to be philosophical about.

 

David.

OK David,

 

It is no secret, the Canadian company is BionX and their 10Ah battery sells for £1049.99 available in the UK from this source BATTERY LIMN, 37V, 9.6AH STANDARD CANBUS.

 

You obviously feel that eZee batteries are over priced and what ever I say will make no difference, so shall we agree to differ on that point?

 

If you had a problem with the battery within the warranty period and reported it to 50cycles it should have been dealt with, but as you say, you didn't have a problem during the that time.

 

You sent one email to 50cycles after the warranty had expired and got no response, perhaps you should have followed that up with a phone call.

 

As for not receiveing a replacement battery, eZee do not know who the individual customers are and as you did not inform 50cycles, how would that be possible to get a replacement.

 

In conclusion, I do not think you have been dealt with unfairly.

 

You obviously feel that eZee batteries are over priced and what ever I say will make no difference, so shall we agree to differ on that point?

 

It's not that I have a particular strong opinion, John - they are expensive enough that it makes it difficult enough to replace without thinking about it, and that makes a replacement bike an option. But nobody has been able to explain to me what goes into that cost - I just want to know. If I know what makes up the price differential, I might be able to form an opinion on the value.

 

If you had a problem with the battery within the warranty period and reported it to 50cycles it should have been dealt with, but as you say, you didn't have a problem during the that time.

 

Well, the warranty period was only six months back then. Did ANYONE see problems within that time? Or did Phylion engineer the warranty period because they knew the batteries had especially short lives? The fact that eZee still replaced 1000 batteries implies to me that they didn't fell the warranty was a particular relevance, but that it was a fitness for purpose issue.

 

You sent one email to 50cycles after the warranty had expired and got no response, perhaps you should have followed that up with a phone call.

 

As for not receiveing a replacement battery, eZee do not know who the individual customers are and as you did not inform 50cycles, how would that be possible to get a replacement.

 

Well, admittedly I am looking back through the lens of forum history, John, but from what I can see that's not quite the case. By March 2008 50Cycles were abrogating all responsibility for their eZee customers and advice in here was directing people to email eZee directly for all support. I sent my mail in April 2008 - 50Cycles didn't respond to advise me of the situation.

 

eZee could have done more to reach customers with bad batteries, in my opinion - clearly the issues with Phylion were apparent before 50Cycles and eZee parted ways, so I am sure that numbers and contacts could have been passed on request before a breakdown in the relationship with the dealer. I see from their website they terminated their relationship with a US dealer as well in the middle of last year.

 

Either way, I feel that the way things panned out dealt some unsuspecting customers a poor deal. Now, I am not really bitter about this - I am a realist. I am sure all of them learnt from their experiences. I have options to keep me going, and perhaps I'll drop eZee an email as well for their reference.

 

Thanks for your comments - discussion much appreciated.

 

Warm regards,

 

David.

Hi David,

 

I have sent you a P.M.

 

Best regards,

I fitted a Chinese 36v, 15ah lipo4 battery on the rack of my Ezee Torq when its battery gave up the ghost and its been fantastic so far. £500 is too much for a battery IMO, just goes against the whole economics of e-biking for me.

 

Anyway it cost £185 with charger. Wiring is dead simple. Underneath those prong type connectors on the bottom of your battery carrier are a couple of screw post terminals - couldn't be easier.

Phylion battery

 

We started by using lead acid batteries in 2001, then in 2003, we changed to NiMH, which at that time were given 6 months warranty as standard in the industry. When we started fitting Li+ batteries from Phylion, we gave the same 6 months warranty, not because we expected that it would expire shortly after that period. ( That was the warranty period given by Phylion as well )

 

Yes, we were fooled by Phylion, let me state here very clearly we lost a 1000 times more than any individual who has lost value with that Phylion battery. When Phylion did not back up their warranty we picked up the bill as far as we could without going out of business.( we were just about to ) . That figure of 1000 batteries is slightly misleading, from this last batch of supposedly "fixed" batteries, some were for warranty replacement and some were sold.

 

We decided at the end of this 1000 units we kept close track of that the quality consistency was not good enough for us to continue with them, and further more we found better supplies. It is not so easy to test batteries for their whole life span, we did what we could, studied the test reports and data, looked at their organisation and technical capability, in other words - due diligence but this did not guarantee us with what would happen.

 

Next, the problem with 50cycles. I do not wish to discuss this much further. Simply say, that we just had no control over what was going on, or of even knowing what was going on. We were so disappointed with the situation that we terminated the distribution agreement with them, for the fact that they did not pay us for a large amount of money owing to us that had not been paid within a reasonable period.

 

We terminated the agreement with eZeebike USA because they were not trying to sell bikes, they were in fact trying to sell a story to investors, unfortunately it was not the right year for them to get easy money from blind and greedy investors. These are not easy times for us, but we just have to bite the bullet, and we pay the price for wrong decision we made in the past.

 

eZee has been in the ebike business since 2001, and we have learnt our lessons well, and what we offer now, is judged by reliability, performance and value for money for the customer.