LIfePO4 Warning!

[PatM]

Warning- I brought a battery that was assembled in the UK to replace my aged existing SLA 24V heavy batteries. I worked a treat! I purchased it in June 13 and must have done >250 miles on it over the summer and charged it with is intelligent charger many times. If Id been out for a ride and plugged it in and it DIDNT need charging- It wouldn't- the green light would not go red- so obviously something was working ok. When it was flat- Id plug it in and it would go from green to red and Id charge it over night in my garage- happy days. Id go to take it off the next morning and it had turned itself off or had gone on standby.
Then, on September 2nd at about 2 in the morning my wife heard several bangs- when down to investigate and the garage was ablaze- the battery had exploded and set fire to the plastic tool-chest it had been resting on and you can guess the rest. No one hurt, I was insured- but the damage costs are still rising- I cant fault my insurers- More Than- Im guessing we are up to about £6k now.
So, you have been warned- I cant name the seller for obvious reasons, but he trades on Ebay, although I brought it via an ad he had put on the offer/item I was buying- an e-bike kit. And yes, I payed via PayPal. whach this space on that score. I paid about £140 for it.

 

[Yamdude]

Pretty scary that..... must admit, I don't like charging any batteries unattended and charge my ebike battery in the hallway on an evening when i'm around.
I wouldn't charge it when i'm out, or overnight when i'm asleep.

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Pat,

A really scary and expensive incident Pat, but more importantly it is fortunate that no one was hurt and that you were adequately insured.

It serves as a valuable lesson to us all to treat batteries with great respect.

Was the charger connected and on at the time?

It would be interesting to know who the supplier was, no doubt that will be revealed in the fulness of time.

 

[OldBob1]

I would never charge a battery in my house over night or unattended, I charge mine in my shed up the top of the garden.
The electrics on the e-bikes are getting better each year, but there is still a long way to go.
Always treat a battery as an electric bomb with no detonator.

Bob
!

 

[TETS]

Hi Pat

Wow I'm glad everyone is OK. It could have been so much worse. All I can say is that If you see any battery for sale that cheap stay clear. Good batteries cost more money but they have proper battery management systems to avoid exactly this kind of thing from happening.

We see cheap batteries coming in to our stores for repair all the time and it is frightening how poorly most of them have been manufactured compared to the Panasonic and Bosch units that we use. Ok you pay more for them but they last 3-5 years and won't set fire to your house so I would say they're worth the dough!

Matt
The Electric Transport Shop
Electric Bike Sales - Electric Bikes, Repairs Conversions

 

[Yamdude]

I dont charge my battery in the shed, because my motorcycle lives in there...... i wouldn't want a possible fire hazard next to that.
It could end up being a bigger explosion than the battery.

 

[Yamdude]

So whats the view of these bottle batteries, which is what i have.
Pretty safe ?...... or should i keep a fire extinguisher near it ?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The charger can't over-charge a LiFePO4 pack. Even if it went wildly out of balance, the cells can go as high as 10v without damage. The only possibility that I can think of is that something shorted out and caught fire. I'd love to know what type of battery it was.

 

[PatM]

The battery was described in the sale as prismatic cells. To me, when it arrived- wrapped in Gaffa-tape- it looked like a block of crack-cocaine of a TV Cop program- ! The seller was a private individual- The battery consisted of 6 rectangular cells- it was 24v 15ah.
I cant reveal my source at this stage but there was almost certainally no BMS in the battery.

The Fire Brigade took a keen interest- as it was a 'first' for them. In the dark, with all the water and mess from the fire, it was difficult to spot the battery- the cells expanded to 3 times their size- and I would say 3 of the 6 exploded. I have pictures of the cells afterwards- but Im not sure this forum permits photo uploads.

As has been said, no one was hurt- but it could have been so different. During the summer, we used to charge the battery in the motorhome...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Interesting information. 6 cells is not LiFePo4. You'd need 8 cells for 24v. To upload photos, follow this instruction, post #3:
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/announcements-feedback-support/15268-does-forum-picture-upload-work.html

So whats the view of these bottle batteries, which is what i have.
Pretty safe ?...... or should i keep a fire extinguisher near it ?

Atatistics are on your side. I've never heard of one catching fire. They normally have a proper BMS; however, there's lots of different manufacturers, some of which are just small workshops. Most OEM bikes are fitted with batteries from reliable suppliers.

 

[GT3]

There's no reason not to name the seller and you should do so to avoid others suffering the same fate.

When the Fire Brigade extinguished my sister's garage fire, they told her it was the second fire they had attended that day caused by charging batteries. That was a normal 12V lead acid battery used to power an electric fence.

 

[KirstinS]

I contacted a seller about 6 months ago. He was a uk based guy building packs sold as for ebikes. He used li-on square prismatic cells at 3.7v nominal per cell

I asked about BMS . He told me I didn't need one

I ran a mile

Am I allowed to post his name ? Not necessarily same person but I never fond any other seller using the "prismatic cell" descriptor

 

[KirstinS]

Patm - sent the name to you on a PM

 

[PatM]

Kirstin- I didn't get it- the email- try patrickjmorgan@btinternet.com.
Did the name have oaktree in the ebay seller name..just wondering..if it di, then its the same guy. Im going to try and upload a few snaps later. Im hesitant to post further details as Ive gone, first to Paypal, whom then passed the buck to Barclaycard. Ive sent them precise details of my case and the transactions

 

[PatM]

Photos of the battery cells- the wire is whats left of the charger- the lump is my tool-chest- all tools destroyed- mainly through molten plastic. The Fire Brigade took keen interest- especially when I announced mid the smoke and chaos of the fire (which I actually extinguished) that we would find the battery pack- as it resembled a consignment of drugs...(well, that's what it looked like prior to the fire..) It was only after my remark and by very poor lighting and smoke, that we found the cells embedded in the remnants of the tool-chest. The explosion had shot lumps of molten material to various parts of the garage- setting small localised fires. The heat and smoke was so extreme that everything in the loft just melted- car radios, remote control cars, tarpaulins, general rubbish we store and never use. Someone mentioned motorbikes- TG my 3 were in another garage at the back of this one- my GS1200R, My R1 and My beloved 38 year old Honda 400/F..

 

[KirstinS]

Good grief - terrifying stuff

And yes - it absolutely is the same seller

Rest assured I won't post the full name - leave that t you as /when comfortable

 

[lessped]

So whats the view of these bottle batteries, which is what i have.
Pretty safe ?...... or should i keep a fire extinguisher near it ?

Fire extinguisher good idea but so rar as i understand it water and Lithium do not mix i would imagine co2 or dry powder would be the order of the day perhaps any members out there might give us not so clued up peeps a few tips on looking after and handling li. batts in a safe way

 

[PatM]

We have just been talking about the night of the fire- my 14-year old was traumatised by all the fast-moving events of that night. I had 2 fire extinguishers in the garage, one just puffed, the other failed to do anything- I then ran to rig the hose, which was down the side of my house- minutes were ticking, I reckon it has been going for about 12-15 minutes since first spotted by my wire- I then went in with the hose going full blast- we have good water-pressure. I put the main fire out in about 30 secs. Then the big boys arrived.

I contacted the guy I brought the battery from in a 'have you got any more of those batteries' type way. Oddly enough, hes never responded- so Im guessing Im not the only one who's had issues.

The purpose of my post was to WARN OTHERS that despite what you may think- batteries CAN catch fire. Im hoping readers will think in future- how many of us go for a ride and re-charge overnight?

 

[lessped]

Fire extinguisher good idea but so rar as i understand it water and Lithium do not mix i would imagine co2 or dry powder would be the order of the day perhaps any members out there might give us not so clued up peeps a few tips on looking after and handling li. batts in a safe way

Another thought just occured we have dealers on this forum i wonder what there policy is for storing li. batts they must have many on there premises

 

[flecc]

We've had a number of incidents of lithium cells swelling with internal shorts, including one which burnt through the battery casing though fortunately not causing any external fire.

I've warned repeatedly in past posts never to charge any battery while not present and awake, they really are potentially household bombs. Just think of how far and for how long the battery is able to drive you along the road and you realise just how much energy is packed in that little box. While safe if issued slowly, the power of all that energy released all at once becomes very dangerous.