LIfePO4 Warning!

[lessped]

We've had a number of incidents of lithium cells swelling with internal shorts, including one which burnt through the battery casing though fortunately not causing any external fire.

I've warned repeatedly in past posts never to charge any battery while not present and awake, they really are potentially household bombs. Just think of how far and for how long the battery is able to drive you along the road and you realise just how much energy is packed in that little box. While safe if issued slowly, the power of all that energy released all at once becomes very dangerous.

Hi Flecc might have known you would be the first to come back with some words of wisdom,was just wondering all tho's other batt. failures did they all fail while being charged ? i am keen to know as i keep my batt. in the house in cupboard under the stairs also i charge it indoors not having a decent shed to keep bits and pieces in the only consolation is it is a good batt. from the Ezee stable but i spose that aint no guarantee

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's no need to panic. You'll be OK as long as you don't do anything stupid. Lots of people die in car crashes every day, but it doesn't stop you from going in a car.

 

[103Alex1]

Really sorry to read about this - must have been an absolutely horrendous experience.

The purpose of my post was to WARN OTHERS that despite what you may think- batteries CAN catch fire. I'm hoping readers will think in future- how many of us go for a ride and re-charge overnight?

I think if you want to warn others the best thing for you to do is to name the seller who you bought the battery/charger off. Cannot see any reason why you should not, especially with proviso that the cause of the explosion is unproved.

What exactly are you worried about in doing this ?

 

[Geebee]

Sounds like a badly built/designed battery with no ballancing on charger or inbuilt?
I only charge whilst sitting in the same room even with mobile phone batteries (yes I am paranoid).
If you charge in a shed and are worried build a battery bunker from concrete blocks or bricks to sit the battery in to charge and if you are really paranoid sit a plastic bag of sand over the top so that if the batteries ignite the sand will smother the fire. Not my idea stolen from somewhere on the net.

 

[PatM]

Battery exploding is only part of the issue. It's WHERE it explodes that I'm warning peeps about. The sellers been named if you read the entire post. That's as much of his tag that necessary. He sold a 48v pack about 4weeks ago, so he's still trading.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I've seen these batteries on Ebay. You'll note that the red tape, fuse etc is the same as that used by Richoaktree, and also located in Wakefield, so probably from the same source:
48v 9Ah Li-ION BATTERY PACK IDEAL FOR ELECTRIC BIKE | eBay
48v LI-ION PRISMATIC BATTERY 15Ah FUSED WITH CHARGER (NEW) | eBay

 

[flecc]

Hi Flecc might have known you would be the first to come back with some words of wisdom,was just wondering all tho's other batt. failures did they all fail while being charged ? i am keen to know as i keep my batt. in the house in cupboard under the stairs also i charge it indoors not having a decent shed to keep bits and pieces in the only consolation is it is a good batt. from the Ezee stable but i spose that aint no guarantee

No, most of the failures were swollen cells which happened while off charge and standing idle, and the one that did burn through it's casing was also off-charge and idle at the time. That was a cobalt cathode li-ion, the type that was most liable to that kind of failure. Today's LiFePO4 and compound cathode e-bike batteries are much more reliable, despite the latter using cobalt again as a constituent of the compound cathode and I keep mine indoors.

So as d8veh says, no need to panic, especially if using a purpose built e-bike battery with BMS. However, on the basis that even the best of products can have a problem, I still think charging while asleep or absent is best avoided.

Coincidentally I've just prised a swollen lithium battery out of one of my cameras, failed while out of use, almost two months from last charge and now showing almost zero volts. It wasn't the camera manufacturer's one but a substitute make backup, it seems usually the most likely though this is the first such failure I've suffered with alternative camera batteries.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

With no BMS to cut off at low voltage, there's no saying how low OP's battery or cells went. If cells go too low, they can get internal shorts, so when you charge them, the short overheats and catches fire.That's the most likely failure mode unless the cause was something external.

Edit: Maybe not. Was it being charged at the time or just resting?

 

[trex]

the swellling should be a good indication of internal short causing the electrolyte to decompose.
The BMS would stop charging if there is a shorted cell in any case.
It would be good if there is an internal sensor telling the BMS of any swelling.

 

[PatM]

@ d8veh- As per my original post/warning- the battery was depleted- it was being charged.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

OK, It looks like it went down too far then. Without a BMS, it probably went out of balance first, which you wouldn't be able to see. If you were relying on the controller's LVC, it would cutoff at the right total voltage, but one or more cells could have been dangerously low. You can run a battery without a BMS, but you have to check that it stays in balance or use an 8S lipo alarm, which only costs a couple of quid.

 

[patpatbut]

Hi all,

Do you think if I charge the battery inside this bag could be safer?

Fireproof LiPo Lithium Polymer Battery Safety Guard Bag - Free Shipping - DealExtreme

Would this help to stop the fire spreading? Has anyone tried it? If we could find a bigger one for zippy..

Pat

 

[Deleted member 4366]

They work, but you'd need one much bigger than that. I bought a couple, but I've never used them.

 

[lessped]

Fire extinguisher good idea but so rar as i understand it water and Lithium do not mix i would imagine co2 or dry powder would be the order of the day perhaps any members out there might give us not so clued up peeps a few tips on looking after and handling li. batts in a safe way

Just found these few lines regardin Lithium-ion Batts.Reports from the Fire Prevention Research Institute and the FAA indicate that lithium ion battery fires do not require a Class D extinguisher—water works effectively to extinguish the flames and cool the cells to prevent further thermal runaway. So it seems we can at least use a hose or similar on the brutes .

 

[PatM]

Yes, the fire was put out with a hose- water- with no adverse effects to me or the building. It went out in seconds, but it took about 10 mins for me to rig the ruddy hose- and try 2 fire extinghuishers.

 

[john h]

just read this post patM bit of an eye opener need to keep an eye on my ecig batterys, as welll as ebike batterys hope you get your garage fixed soon

 

[Clockwise]

I've seen these batteries on Ebay. You'll note that the red tape, fuse etc is the same as that used by Richoaktree, and also located in Wakefield, so probably from the same source:
48v 9Ah Li-ION BATTERY PACK IDEAL FOR ELECTRIC BIKE | eBay
48v LI-ION PRISMATIC BATTERY 15Ah FUSED WITH CHARGER (NEW) | eBay

Just have a read of the feedbacks, even the ones he has got converted away from negative calling them "nasty" and then appealing ebay as sellers do now.
eBay Feedback profile for micmax50

built of old batteries (batteries with different mA)

Battery lasted one ride before becoming defective.Refund given,6 weeks no bike

 

[aaannndddyyy]

Sorry to here about your fire. but you need to get your facts right.
Your title LIfePO4 Warning! is misleading as the battery is not lifepo4 it is a LI-ION total different cemetery.
I use both lifepo4 and li-ion on my electric bikes, Lifepo4 is the only one i will leave unattended whilst charging never li-ion

 

[PatM]

They do look the same/similar. The PP payment was to someone called Michael...

 

[pdarnett]

Just do a search on ebay, seems he's got a new account.