Too many options in my mind, but... any good?

[Frankie24]

Frankie....the Kudos Sport was deleted because the manufacturers of that bike no longer exists. The Vita Uno 26 is a lighter,faster,better balanced bike than the Sport. At £695 it must be the best value currently around,there are many customers riding them,LEBC are half way through the first batch of 70 bikes.
Time to test ride a few bikes,no matter what the on paper specification the proof is riding biked. The Duke is too big for you,it's a bike for a 6 ft plus guy.
Kudosdave

So the vita ion is a good option isn't?
Any idea about quality of battery and warranty?

 

[Frankie24]

Ok, so after think a lot my conclusion is this.
I won't take the sirocco sport even if I line the torque and the way it's looks, I have to think I will use as a transport to go work and sometimes but just sometimes as a leisure bike. I have to forget about the way it looks and think about how good is for me. Because is going to be my first ebike I don't want to spend thousands ( I will do in the future if I like them, and If I can haha)
So after all this my only 2 options are sirocco2 as it was from the beginningand and the vita uno. Better battery in the sirocco2 better look and lighter the vita.
Both of then from sellers that are in here, so this is good support probably.
Now I have to check if any of them can give me a good deal as I'm in Ireland..
Thanks to everyone for everything

 

[trex]

Don't think of a larger battery as an opportunity to charge less often, lithium batteries are cyclic, that means they like to be constantly used and recharged. Always emptying them before charging just shortens their life.

The reasons to have a larger capacity battery are mainly longer range, followed by the additional small benefits of slightly better performance and slightly longer life.

So whatever your battery size, even if you've only used a quarter or a third of the charge, recharge it. That way, when setting out you'll always have the optimum performance and longest available range.

I have access to failure rate of Chinese batteries and I can assure you that 15AH batteries are THREE TIMES as reliable as 10AH batteries during their warranty period. I think this is due to the fact that 250W motors can output as much as 500W - the peak current draw is often around 16A-18A - damaging the cells especially when the bike hits bumps. The 15AH have the same load spread over more cells, resulting in far less stress. Also, there is real benefit in riding the bike over a bigger spread 30%-100% of remaining battery power rather than within 70%-100%. I think members can support me with anecdotal evidence that 15-20 miles a day commute results in very durable batteries, even on 10AH, much better than commutes of less than 7 miles a day.

 

[Cyclezee]

Anyone could give me their opinion about which one is better between this 3?
Sirocco2vss kudos duke vs indigo regency

The eZee Sprint Primo

Full spec here
http://cyclezee.com/ezee-sprint-primo.html

 

[Frankie24]

The eZee Sprint Primo
View attachment 8473
Full spec here
http://cyclezee.com/ezee-sprint-primo.html

I saw it and is nice but completely outside of my budget.. My other 2 options are less than 700 and one of them is coming with 15ah, if would be cheaper I could think about it but I can't go for that price. Thanks anyway

 

[neptune]

I am trying to understand what trex is saying about commuting and battery life. It makes sense that a 15 Ah battery has an easier life than a 10Ah. However, someone who commutes cannot choose over what distance they commute. You say that someone whose daily journey is 15 to 20 miles per day will benefit from longer battery life than a less than 7 miles a day. Are you measuring battery life in number of commuting days, or in total miles traveled? I would have thought that commuting the shorter distance but charging every three days would be about the same from the batteries point of view?

 

[Frankie24]

What I understood is that because of the cells are all the time working you have to keep them moving. Having a 15ah gives you the chance to go farther if you need one day and because they are ''more relaxed'' the battery is more secure(harder to have problem with it) however, it doesn't matter how long you ride, or how far or how many days, you should charge the battery everyday to keep it working perfectly.
So thinking about that( you have to charge it even if is nearly full) having a bigger battery gives you more opportunities for leisure or something like that.
This is what I understood, However, maybe I am wrong hahaha

 

[mountainsport]

The eZee Sprint Primo
View attachment 8473
Full spec here
http://cyclezee.com/ezee-sprint-primo.html

I don't understand why this machine was not added into the equation ?
Maybe a computer keyboard error.

MS.

 

[Frankie24]

I don't understand why this machine was not added into the equation ?
Maybe a computer keyboard error.

MS.

The others bikes I've been looking at are not over 700 this is 850. Is out of my budget,..

 

[mountainsport]

I am trying to understand what trex is saying about commuting and battery life. It makes sense that a 15 Ah battery has an easier life than a 10Ah. However, someone who commutes cannot choose over what distance they commute. You say that someone whose daily journey is 15 to 20 miles per day will benefit from longer battery life than a less than 7 miles a day. Are you measuring battery life in number of commuting days, or in total miles traveled? I would have thought that commuting the shorter distance but charging every three days would be about the same from the batteries point of view?

Hello neptune it really gets confusing, because I also heard that regardless of the pack size you should top up your battery even after a 2-3 mile trip or journey

MS.

 

[mountainsport]

The others bikes I've been looking at are not over 700 this is 850. Is out of my budget,..

Remember the saying you get what you pay for and sometimes it is good to go that extra mile.

MS

 

[trex]

I am trying to understand what trex is saying about commuting and battery life. It makes sense that a 15 Ah battery has an easier life than a 10Ah. However, someone who commutes cannot choose over what distance they commute. You say that someone whose daily journey is 15 to 20 miles per day will benefit from longer battery life than a less than 7 miles a day. Are you measuring battery life in number of commuting days, or in total miles traveled? I would have thought that commuting the shorter distance but charging every three days would be about the same from the batteries point of view?

it's true that 15ah batteries have easier life than 10ah batteries.
let's assume you have a 10ah battery, and your daily commute is 15 miles.
The average consumption is around 12WH per mile, so 15 miles use up 15 * 12 = 180WH or 50% of your battery. You have no choice but charging up your battery daily, that battery is good for 2 years before the capacity drops below 75% of its original strength.
If your journey is 7 miles per day, you use 84WH or 23% of your battery and choose to charge daily, your battery is also good for 2 years. However, if you charge only after every other trip, your battery should last 3-4 years.
For a 15ah battery, 15 miles = 180WH = 33% capacity, 7 miles = 84WH = 16% capacity. 2 years if you charge daily, 3-4 years if you charge every other trip.
If you commute less than 10 miles a day, you don't need 15ah battery, more than 15 miles a day, 15ah battery is definitely better choice, better acceleration, better time and longer lasting. A small point, bottle batteries seem to be more problematic for commuting. Over the years, members have reported more dead bottle batteries than any other type.

 

[Arbol]

Don't think of a larger battery as an opportunity to charge less often, lithium batteries are cyclic, that means they like to be constantly used and recharged. Always emptying them before charging just shortens their life.

The reasons to have a larger capacity battery are mainly longer range, followed by the additional small benefits of slightly better performance and slightly longer life.

So whatever your battery size, even if you've only used a quarter or a third of the charge, recharge it. That way, when setting out you'll always have the optimum performance and longest available range.

From:

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=57084&p=851799

it seems "recharging" is not always good. In fact, recharging up to the standard 4.2V is really bad. Recharging up to say 4.1V then yes, it is good.

It is not clear to me if it is better to recharge to 4.1V if the battery has been used say 30%, or if it is better to wait until reaching say 3.6V levels, and then recharge to 4.1V.

Of course, deeply discharging is bad. However, it seems 100% charging is also bad. As a consequence, naively it seems the best is just remain in the "central" area of SOC, ie remain as short a time as possible in the extremes (either fully charged or deeply discharged).

 

[trex]

people charge more often because a 100% full battery at 42V gives better acceleration than an 80% full battery at 39V - without thinking that will stress their battery to the max, so they keep doing it.

 

[Frankie24]

If your journey is 7 miles per day, you use 84WH or 23% of your battery and choose to charge daily, your battery is also good for 2 years. However, if you charge only after every other trip, your battery should last 3-4 years.
For a 15ah battery, 15 miles = 180WH = 33% capacity, 7 miles = 84WH = 16% capacity. 2 years if you charge daily, 3-4 years if you charge every other trip..

So, If I use the bike monday to friday for working, then I charge the battery this 5 days. but if some weekends I don't use the bike or just sunday for example, If I charge the battery just the day I did a trip the battery would last longer rigth?

 

[Frankie24]

Remember the saying you get what you pay for and sometimes it is good to go that extra mile.

MS

You are completely right but If I have no limits is like if I'm going to buy a Nissan Micra but for 1000 more I can get a renault clio, then for few more thousands I can get a Polo and at the very end I buy a BMW 5 series or so haha.
I know that for little bit more you can get something better, normally that difference on the price means quality( normally but not always) Nobody said anything bad about woosh bikes, and I still having on my mind the Vita Uno(but no reviews or something like that)
Anyway I didn't order anything yet I will see what I have and what I get haha

 

[Deleted member 4366]

There's a lot of confusion about what the meaning of 80% and 20% is. 80% of what? Your battery can go higher than the 42v you charge it to and lower than 31v that the controller shuts off. The BMS is set to an industry standard so that you get the optimum between battery service life and capacity. Why do you want to change it? do you only part-charge your phone?

 

[trex]

there is no simple indication about the state of charge (SOC) of Lithium ion batteries, but one can assume that when the battery charger LED goes green, SOC is 100% and when the BMS cuts out, it's 0%
Between the two levels, the manufacturer will garantee at least what it says on the battery, 36V 10AH = 360WH, 36V 15AH = 540WH useable capacity that you can count on.
I am warning against charging too often.
The battery capacity declines over time, there is no simple way to say that each charging cycle will decrease useable capacity by 0.05% but statistically, it makes sense to assume so (500 cycles for 25% decrease, it's easier to think you pay £1 towards your next battery at each charge).
I am also warning about choosing style over practicality for a commuting bike.
You can't say - next time I hit the kerb, my battery will die but you can rely on anecdotal evidence on the relative risk of different styles (bottle, 'frog' seat post mount, 'dolphin' behind seat post and rear rack) to your BMS when you hit the kerb, behind the seat post is best, bottle on the down tube is worst.

 

[flecc]

Obviously some sense is needed about when to recharge, it would be silly if to recharge after only a tenth of the capacity is used on a very short local trip.

But it would be equally silly not to recharge after a third of the capacity is used and a subsequent ride might take the battery down to very low content. That also stresses the battery.

On most e-bikes with most owners we are only speaking of 30 miles or less range, so there isn't much tolerance for avoiding recharging anyway. On the many e-bikes with 20 miles or less range a high proportion of rides will require a following recharge.

 

[Arbol]

I am also warning about choosing style over practicality for a commuting bike.
You can't say - next time I hit the kerb, my battery will die but you can rely on anecdotal evidence on the relative risk of different styles (bottle, 'frog' seat post mount, 'dolphin' behind seat post and rear rack) to your BMS when you hit the kerb, behind the seat post is best, bottle on the down tube is worst.

Why is that? I naively assumed the most important, rather than the location on the frame, would be to have both front and rear suspension.

I do not see why behind the seat post may reduce vibrations better than on the down tube, for a hardtail. Can you please provide the argument for a seat post battery and against one on the down tube? I would like to think about this.