Why does nobody sell branded bikes with electric kits ready installed?
- Thread starter Streethawk
- Start date
C
Cyclezee
Guest
Indalo, you really have got this very wrong. When some previously disagreed with me I happily left the forum and would very willingly do so again if I really was a bad influence of any kind. I came back only because so many wanted me to. Nobody is indispensable, least of all me, the status as "guru" being thrust upon me without my asking and being as much a source of amusement to me as it evidently is to you. In my world I view titles as often being no more than a joke.
Although I did kick this forum into life in the first place, the forum could run very easily without me as there are a number of excellent helpers with widely differing opinions. I'm completely at ease with you having opinions that differ from mine, but why are you not at ease with me enjoying that status also, preferring to hint at some mysterious conspiracy lead by me.
The fact is that the majority of members seem to prefer the forum the way it is, hut if that changed I would either go along with the change or if finding it unacceptable, I'd leave. That should be your position. You have joined as a member and seem to think that because it doesn't suit you as it is, it should change just to suit you. That is nothing but arrogance.
If as a result of your postings there is a popular uprising against the status quo and me in particular, I'll happily go and leave you with the reformed forum. If that doesn't happen and you don't like the forum the way the majority seem to like it, do the sensible thing, leave and go elsewhere.
.
As someone who has been around considerably longer than you, I would say the exact opposite.
I have found people here to be very helpful and flecc, in particular, is scrupulous about declaring interests and I find him to be entirely trustworthy.
Indalo - I don't know what caused your knickers to get in such a twist, but your vague accusations (yes, you have made accusations) make you sound somewhat paranoid.
I agree Fleecc you must stay I have never seen you give BAD advise
And only help improve this forum
Frank
And only help improve this forum
Frank
Flecc's the man.. I have even got a jacket named after him...flecc jacket...sorry I mean a fleece!
Jesus its only advise and experience shared.
So what if a few memebers may or may not have a vested interest.
The point is if your stupid enough not to seak other opinions / advice or experience then its your own stupid fault.
We should be careful and discriminating in all the advice we give. We should be especially careful in giving advice that we would not think of following ourselves. Most of all, we ought to avoid giving counsel which we don't follow when it damages those who take us at our word.
So what if a few memebers may or may not have a vested interest.
The point is if your stupid enough not to seak other opinions / advice or experience then its your own stupid fault.
We should be careful and discriminating in all the advice we give. We should be especially careful in giving advice that we would not think of following ourselves. Most of all, we ought to avoid giving counsel which we don't follow when it damages those who take us at our word.
Amen to that.
indalo, I'm struggling to see what the meaning of your rant is all about. Sure, some senior members may well have a financial/commercial interest, but from what I read (on a daily basis) the accurate advice and information given of the knowledgeable posters is simply mind-blowingly good.
Imo, this forum would be a lot poorer if certain people decided enough is enough and walked away.
Have a cup of tea or a beer and chill out. No point stressing about something which doesn't really exist.
I've long realised that Indalo was tilting at me but didn't want to come straight out with it.
I have the impression that because I strongly support the suppliers of the more expensive high end bikes he feels there is probably some corrupt aspect to this. There isn't of course, I'm just expressing my long life experience that ultimately they are the best and most reliable suppliers of products, and that over all my experience of e-bikes, they are the only ones that have lasted to give continuing support.
He apparently disagrees and feel the high prices are a rip-off, a feeling he shares with a number of other members. That doesn't worry me since there is plenty of lower price choice for them to buy from, I just wish he'd do that and stop insinuating malpractice.
I've always been fastidious in refusing any benefits for what I do in here, insisting on paying the going price for bikes/parts etc that I buy. During my membership I've owned a Giant Lafree bought at list price from BikePlus in Brighton Road Croydon, a Torq 1 and a Quando bought from 50cycles at the full list prices.
I've written articles and reviews for magazines like A to B without payment but always pay the full subscription rates to receive the magazines.
The only benefits I've ever received are twofold. I was offered a battery to test over time on my eZee bikes by eZee, but only accepted that when I learned that I was one of a batch of people internationally selected to test them. When buying a new eZee battery from Onbike I was offered one that had been used hard on the Ching Challenge ride in the West Country so was at a good discount from the new price. I thought the risk reasonable so bought that. It proved fine but after only a very few miles I sold it to a member who needed one, selling at a further £100 off. He was delighted with the bargain since it was virtually new, but sadly his bike was stolen soon afterwards so it appeared that battery was fated not to do good.
When I sold the Lafree it was to a member in here at around a quarter of the second hand market value. In fact when he had finally finished with it he was able to sell it for very much more but was decent enough to clear that with me first for my approval.
When I disposed of the Torq 1 it was as a gift to someone on my estate.
I've also given completely free to various members a usable Lafree battery, a Lafree charger, an eZee Li-ion charger, a Powacycle Salisbury/Windsor charger, an eZee battery case and a wide variety of spare parts, all post and packing free to anywhere, even once to New Zealand.
So far from benefiting, membership has cost me a substantial amount of money, though I'm happy with that in order to help members where possible.
.
I have the impression that because I strongly support the suppliers of the more expensive high end bikes he feels there is probably some corrupt aspect to this. There isn't of course, I'm just expressing my long life experience that ultimately they are the best and most reliable suppliers of products, and that over all my experience of e-bikes, they are the only ones that have lasted to give continuing support.
He apparently disagrees and feel the high prices are a rip-off, a feeling he shares with a number of other members. That doesn't worry me since there is plenty of lower price choice for them to buy from, I just wish he'd do that and stop insinuating malpractice.
I've always been fastidious in refusing any benefits for what I do in here, insisting on paying the going price for bikes/parts etc that I buy. During my membership I've owned a Giant Lafree bought at list price from BikePlus in Brighton Road Croydon, a Torq 1 and a Quando bought from 50cycles at the full list prices.
I've written articles and reviews for magazines like A to B without payment but always pay the full subscription rates to receive the magazines.
The only benefits I've ever received are twofold. I was offered a battery to test over time on my eZee bikes by eZee, but only accepted that when I learned that I was one of a batch of people internationally selected to test them. When buying a new eZee battery from Onbike I was offered one that had been used hard on the Ching Challenge ride in the West Country so was at a good discount from the new price. I thought the risk reasonable so bought that. It proved fine but after only a very few miles I sold it to a member who needed one, selling at a further £100 off. He was delighted with the bargain since it was virtually new, but sadly his bike was stolen soon afterwards so it appeared that battery was fated not to do good.
When I sold the Lafree it was to a member in here at around a quarter of the second hand market value. In fact when he had finally finished with it he was able to sell it for very much more but was decent enough to clear that with me first for my approval.
When I disposed of the Torq 1 it was as a gift to someone on my estate.
I've also given completely free to various members a usable Lafree battery, a Lafree charger, an eZee Li-ion charger, a Powacycle Salisbury/Windsor charger, an eZee battery case and a wide variety of spare parts, all post and packing free to anywhere, even once to New Zealand.
So far from benefiting, membership has cost me a substantial amount of money, though I'm happy with that in order to help members where possible.
.
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Streethawk, getting back on topic, you are right that the majority of ebikes do cost a lot more than the sum of their parts, however given the way the market currently is that's just the way it has to be. There's a difference between overcharging and charging a lot.
You've just got to accept that an Ezee Torq at £1500 comes with Zoom forks, a Wisper at £1600 comes with RST Vita forks, and a Trek FX+ doesn't even have front suspension.
There just isn't the volume of sales to keep a business going (office rental, wages, etc) without charging a lot for these bikes while keeping the parts costs down. However, keeping the business going is what some customers need so it makes sense for them to pay extra safe in the knowledge that they will be able to get reliable after sales support, and there is no-one who can doubt the quality of after sales support there is in this industry. I've only been reading this forum for a few years but I see time and time again companies going above and beyond to make sure their customers are happy. When my frame snapped due to user error, Hamant at PoweredBicycles brought me back a replacement free of charge on his next trip to his manufacturers in China, and this is not uncommon (this level of support throughout the industry, not my frame snapping!!!).
Another point is that I'm finding that you don't really need top spec. stuff on a 36V electric bike that is at most going to encounter potholes and speed bumps. I think that when you get to Deore level gears, Fox level shocks, Mavic level wheels and Avid hydraulic level brakes you are really leaving the target market for ebikes, although on price alone you might not think it! I, like you, was very dubious about the quality of the Alien bike (I'd never even seen a non-sealed bottom bracket before in my life!) but I have to say that the zoom forks are still doing their job of soaking up the potholes, the Tourney gears are still working and since I upgraded to Jagwire brake blocks, the braking has remained excellent. My Alien GS1 has definitely won me over by sheer persistence! I think the power of the motor puts less stress on the gears and other parts of the bike resulting in less of a need for higher speced parts.
On a side note, I've really enjoyed reading up on and deciding on upgrades for my electric bike (with some help from yourself on the saddle front! Thanks for that by the way) - RockShox forks, RaceFace Deus XC seatpost, Mavic CrossRide wheels, etc. It does however highlight the difference between costs and sales prices for these stock electric bikes though!
You've just got to accept that an Ezee Torq at £1500 comes with Zoom forks, a Wisper at £1600 comes with RST Vita forks, and a Trek FX+ doesn't even have front suspension.
There just isn't the volume of sales to keep a business going (office rental, wages, etc) without charging a lot for these bikes while keeping the parts costs down. However, keeping the business going is what some customers need so it makes sense for them to pay extra safe in the knowledge that they will be able to get reliable after sales support, and there is no-one who can doubt the quality of after sales support there is in this industry. I've only been reading this forum for a few years but I see time and time again companies going above and beyond to make sure their customers are happy. When my frame snapped due to user error, Hamant at PoweredBicycles brought me back a replacement free of charge on his next trip to his manufacturers in China, and this is not uncommon (this level of support throughout the industry, not my frame snapping!!!).
Another point is that I'm finding that you don't really need top spec. stuff on a 36V electric bike that is at most going to encounter potholes and speed bumps. I think that when you get to Deore level gears, Fox level shocks, Mavic level wheels and Avid hydraulic level brakes you are really leaving the target market for ebikes, although on price alone you might not think it! I, like you, was very dubious about the quality of the Alien bike (I'd never even seen a non-sealed bottom bracket before in my life!) but I have to say that the zoom forks are still doing their job of soaking up the potholes, the Tourney gears are still working and since I upgraded to Jagwire brake blocks, the braking has remained excellent. My Alien GS1 has definitely won me over by sheer persistence! I think the power of the motor puts less stress on the gears and other parts of the bike resulting in less of a need for higher speced parts.
On a side note, I've really enjoyed reading up on and deciding on upgrades for my electric bike (with some help from yourself on the saddle front! Thanks for that by the way) - RockShox forks, RaceFace Deus XC seatpost, Mavic CrossRide wheels, etc. It does however highlight the difference between costs and sales prices for these stock electric bikes though!
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