120 million ebikes

hoppy

Member
May 25, 2010
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50
There are over 120 million ebikes on the road in China. That is roughly 10 percent of the population so the equivalent in the UK would be 6 million ebikes! I doubt if there are as many as 100,000 here in fact. Their annual sales are over 20 million too. The equivalent here would be 1 million sales per year. Why the difference? The simple answer is price. In China normal ebike prices are in the low hundreds of pounds. If anyone had the entrepreneurial gumption to sell reliable , useable, basic ebikes here for 2 to 3 hundred pounds and market them properly the public acceptance of them would be transformed ! It has worked in China!
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
Agreed though aren't most of theirs running with SLA batteries ?

I doubt you could make a profit selling a lithium battery driven bike in the UK for £2-300 ?

Regards

Jerry
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
Also the uk infrastructure is nit the most bike friendly and the main preferred mode of transport is the car. Bikes will not take over unfortunately no matter how cheap or reliable they may be.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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These are not what we would call e-bikes. They are mostly moped style, around 700 watts and with SLA batteries. Not what most of us want to ride.
 

Synthman

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 31, 2010
417
0
Oxford
But I want to ride them! They have all these wonderful looking bikes in China that I never see over here.
 

eddieo

Banned
Jul 7, 2008
5,070
6
But I want to ride them! They have all these wonderful looking bikes in China that I never see over here.
Then either fly over or order directly a crate full of them......:confused:

buy a box of 5, sell 2 to cover expenses, and the other 3 should keep you going in spare parts for the forseable future.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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But I want to ride them! They have all these wonderful looking bikes in China that I never see over here.
Because they have to be type approved and registered as motor vehicles with all that entails. Ergo, no-one will buy them.

They aren't e-bikes here, and they aren't even e-bikes in China as their government is increasingly saying and clamping down. At around 700 watts rating they break our power limit and at 20 mph and more they break the Chinese 12 mph assist speed limit.
 

lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
It's worth a trip to Carrefour at Cite Europe at Calais. They always have a range of ebikes at around £400. occasional offers at £300. You can buy one there and just bring it back, of course, no different to buying it in the uK.

This one's about £400. Carrefour don't seem to list their ebike offerings on their web site but this is from June. I was there a couple of weeks ago and they still had this one but cheaper, as I recall. They always have a range of ebikes on sale so a phone call to find out would be worthwhile.

Carrefour promotion: Vélo pliable à assistance électrique - Produit maison - Carrefour (Vélo électrique) - PromoButler
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Hoppy....as flecc has pointed out what you are refering to as e-bikes have more in common with motorised mopeds.....the bikes we all ride here are best refered to as electric bicycles....the chinese bikes are available at such places as the Canton Fair for about £150-£200,they are heavy with poor quality lead acid batteries,they need type approval here,do not meet EN15194,could not be rode on cycle tracks and need crash helmet,tax,insurance etc. But the most important point is that these are very poor quality construction...many of the e-bike manufacturers have 2 factories...Factory 1 produces non assisted bikes some as low as £38 for a Dahon copy(minimum order 2000 units) but to this you must add £10.00 for shipping and duty and 48% anti-dumping duty(normal bikes have 48% EU anti-dumping duty,e-bikes have 3.8% to 6% duty),the resultant price matches the £80 you can buy a bike in Halfords....Factory 1 also produces the worst e-bikes you have ever seen,they break down often,the batteries last about 6 months-to a chinese guy if it goes it's a good bike subtleties like lights and brakes are a luxury,if you were allowed to import these bikes the responsibility of sale of goods act and after sales problems would soon send any importer into liquidation to avoid the ongoing problems. Factory 2 is the electric bicycle factory and high end non assisted bikes (usually exported in parts,for assembly elsewhere to avoid the duty)...the difference is immediately noticeable,much higher quality of parts,quality control procedures....no Chinese would buy these bikes,their attitude is that bikes are for peasants,therefore must be cheap....if you can afford a Euro quality bike you would buy a car!
This story may amuse.....I am used to travelling in China,normally on the Eastern seaboard from Guangzhou up to Shanghai,occasionally to Tianjing....i had an e-bike seller who insisted they had a wonderful new e-bike,they were located near Nanchang,further west than my normal route and their bike was cheap. They picked me up from this brand new airport at Nanchang and drove 3 hours into the desert to a new town (sort of Milton Keynes with Neon),they put me in the Grand Hotel...brand new,still covered in builder's dust,no hot water,asian breakfast,concrete beds....I got up in the middle of night and saw this 20% built new town...some sort of obelisk,tall as nelson's column with neon rings running up n down....a modern theatre sort of gone wrong Rogers design and my hotel,nothing else. They picked me up in the morning to a brand new factory,probably £5million here....the place was 6 months old,never cleaned,builders dust everywhere,stickers still on the curtain wall glazing....they showed me the worst quality e-bike I had ever viewed,price less than $200 though,in 5 mins I put on my QC hat and identified 20 plus dangerous faults without trying hard....this story hoppy says all why the £250 chinese e-bikes will not be suitable to sell in Europe. Ok so whats amusing....to this day I don't have a clue where they took me,not even sure that the whole journey wasn't just a bad dream!
Dave
KudosCycles
 

hoppy

Member
May 25, 2010
330
50
Fascinating responses-thanks. Dave(Mr.Kudos), I'd love to hear some more stories of your experiences in China! You're probably our best hope for a decent but really low-priced and therefore popular electric bike acceptable to the general public.
 

avronb

Pedelecer
Oct 8, 2011
97
0
Tell me Dave,why is China always the default choice for bikes/parts etc,what about South America for instance or Japan,anything that comes out of that country is always well made,but there is one country that has a large pool of workers that are capable of turning out high quality goods,that country is ENGLAND,Honda,Toyota,Nissan etc seem more than happy with the British workforce they employ.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Avronb.....I don't know the sourcing of parts of all car assemblers on your list but one of my auto parts suppliers in China is proud of being listed as a worldwide top 20 supplier to HONDA! I suspect that most of the UK car assemblers source their parts from lowcost economies,Japan is not a lowcost economy.....look at Jaguar,Land Rover owned by the Tata corporation of India-I wonder how many of their parts are currently sourced from India and in which direction will be sourcing in the future. Don't forget that MG-Rover are also owned by Shanghai Automotive.
The UK government openly supports this situation...they only care where the bulk of the value addded (VAT) is developed.
I think it is the country of ownership which is the more important than the sourcing of the parts. Then we can have some control of that sourcing and the corporation/income tax is paid to our government. Don't forget our biggest bank is HSBC (Hong Kong and Shanghai Banking). Every time we sell one of our big companies to foreign ownership there is always the risk that the UK will be left as a distributor or assembler and the manufacturing moved elsewhere (Cadburys!).
In the UK we need to look towards our strengths-we have always been a great trading nation,we are good at developing new products....there was a lot of criticism of Dyson moving production to Asia and JCB opening the big plant in India....if these guys had not made that unpopular move they would have been in a very difficult position,not being able to compete with lowcost economy imports taking away their market,at least they can compete on equal terms with the cheap competition.
Dave
KudosCycles
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
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www.kudoscycles.com
Avronb...to continue the previous posting....on our auto business we have a number of products that we succesfully sell to mainland Europe,all these products were supplied from the USA but we now source direct from Asia,the Americans cannot compete-they are out of the supply chain. These products could not be economically manufactured in the UK.
We pay UK tax on the profit of these products which our government is in desperate need of. It is sourcing like this that will be the future of the UK-play to our strengths,become a strong trading nation again-we are good at trading.
Dave
KudosCycles
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,559
30,848
Adding to what Dave has said, Honda, Toyota and Nissan tend to be in the slightly higher price band per product so perhaps are more able to accommodate UK costs.

Lower cost-per-car makers like Fiat and Suzuki produce huge numbers of their cars in Poland (website) and Hungary (Magyar-Suzuki) and some of the parts used in assembly are made in China.
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
Dave @ Kudo's I agree with you completly with the China aspects. There are some great suppliers there but digging them out can be a chore. I do alot of trips and the Canton fair for work in retail and come across not the same problems but similar in a different sector.

We are a great assembler / trader in the markets. But I can't help but think that we used to be such a great manufactuing country and its a little bit of out own downfall with the economy. If only we would be tax exempt from creating our own goods employed with people from the UK could be be in a better way such as our counterparts in Germany who... albeit expensive still have a very good manufacturing economy.

Still its for people with larger brain capacitys and more time on their hands to figure out our best moves and how to get us out the pickle.

I do like to hear your stories of sourcing ands trips to China. Its taught me alot in business over the past 6 years of doing it though.
I'm glad others also go through some of the heartache I do on sourcing.