Good question especially as BH state categorically that NEO's have 350 watt motors restricted to 250 watt to comply with the law and the are Eu Law compliant.
As with all of this until someone is prosecuted its all just guess work.
20mph speed limit -applies to bikes ?
- Thread starter KirstinS
- Start date
As with all of this until someone is prosecuted its all just guess work.
I doubt the police can or will be bothered to practically enforce these 20mph limits..they already come out and said as much...the police federation etc.. that they don't have the manpower or resources to police those limits and don't intend to do it.
So that means the local authorities will have to either rely on people complying, else invest in expensive speed camera technology and issue penalties that way.
I think in my case, if the police did stop me they would probably be able to just use their common sense and lift the back wheel off the road and open the throttle and see just by looking it's not going to do 20mph.
Does anyone know if speed cameras respond to bicycles? I am sure I read somewhere that a cyclist managed to do 45 mph through a 30 mph camera and fired the camera,bit difficult to prosecute without a number plate!
Dave
Kudoscycles
Dave
Kudoscycles
I doubt many can do Dave. I've tried on some down slopes, including at 44 mph, but always failed. I did once manage to trigger one of the advisory speed signs when nothing else was near, but it showed a quite different speed from mine so it may have been faulty in some way. I wasn't even breaking the limit since I was at an accurate 28 mph when it showed 34 mph.
Heh that's true. I saw a news report the other day that police camera and CCTV technology is being beaten by criminals using those pocket keyring laser pointer things.. the police are saying it's a growing problem in many areas and if someone points one of those pocket laser pointers at the camera it just totally blocks out the image (not that you'd be able to do that while riding or driving 30mph through a 20mph limit!). They even had some problems with planes and police helicopters, same thing, criminals/gangs pointed the lasers at the them and they nearly crashed.
Ah..yes...but that was as we concluded, he drifted into a parallel universe briefly, and blamed it on speed bumps to avoid the attention of the quantum physics boffs.................
I agree, motorists will spend more time checking the speedo.
I'd rather everyone looked at the road ahead. There will be more rear enders especially in fixed camera spots.
Lets see a proper scientific study of driver eye movements / focus when driving in and out of these camera ridden areas.
Personally I would prefer do dump the speedo, eyes on the road 100% of the time and just drive to the road and surrounding conditions.
Yea buts that what we had years ago before speed limits and the problem was that one person idea of a safe speed is different from anothers so how in court do you fairly and consitently decide whos in the wrong ?. Speed limits were only introduced to make it easier to proscute people for driving to fast by setting a hard defined limit.
Speed limits are in general wrong, as which is more dangerous 100mph on a sunny day down a empty motorway or 70 mph on same motorway in rush hour and fog ?. Yet first is illegal and second is not (from a speeding point of view police could still try and do you for dangerous driving which again then comes down to opinion)
Truble is your solution relies on all drivers using common sense and driving sensibly which we all know is never going to happen.
Trouble with speed bumps is that just cause the brake, speed up, brake, speed up syndrome which is no more safe and as for pedestrain crossings to many of them just leeds to drivers trying to get across as many as possible without stopping.
Yep, absolutley right. It is never going to happen. Does not mean that I or anyone else has to be happy with the situation, just accept best possible.
The technogy exists for engine management systems to be linked with gps position and mapped against current speed limits. Car can automatically restrict to the local speed limit.
Sure, a few people killed when the car slows at the crucial moment but nothing like the carnage we currently have.
The powers that be would have us all believe that a high proportion of accidents are speed related. Well put their money where their mouths are and implement the above.
We'll soon see if they are right. Oh, of course they will have to raise taxes to compensate for the lost speeding revenue but I am sure thats ok with most people.
Hi Call me a old fart I get flashed when around town i don't go over 28 MPH The speed limit is 30 MPH MAXIM NOT 30+ The weird part off speed limits are that they are in 10MPH if the law was changed to speed limit in 5 MPH increments this can be done as modern speedos are much more accurate so then town centers can be changed to 25 MPH At 25 MPH a collision with a person is not fatal at 35 + MPH it IS or very serious injures accrue
Frank
Frank
Frank, lower limits in town are needed and have been for many years.
Speaking for myself who, over the years has had a few speeding fines and points, I spend far too much time looking at the speedo. I think, paranoid is the word.
One of the reasons I rarely use my motorcycle in this country. I prefer to look at the road at all times and not the dashboard.
In the car, I have the cruise control set to the local max limit. Drive normally and the cruise stops the car going over this limit. Thus, I can safely look at the roads.
Why can't all vehicles have this?
'Wanton and furious riding' is an old offence - the riding originally referred to a horse.
However, it is still used occasionally because most of the motoring offences contain the phrase 'you drove a mechanically propelled vehicle....' and not all vehicles fit the definition 'mechanically propelled'.
It is generally held that speed limits do not apply to bicycles, but were you to ride a bike at speed in a dangerous manner, say outside a school at kicking out time, you could be charged with wanton and furious.
Where this leaves ebikes is not clear, but I reckon most would be treated as ordinary bikes.
An exception might be that £9,000 contraption that does 50mph.
As regards the 20mph limit in Brighton, the best advice must be to stick to it, not least because it's there for a reason.
However, it is still used occasionally because most of the motoring offences contain the phrase 'you drove a mechanically propelled vehicle....' and not all vehicles fit the definition 'mechanically propelled'.
It is generally held that speed limits do not apply to bicycles, but were you to ride a bike at speed in a dangerous manner, say outside a school at kicking out time, you could be charged with wanton and furious.
Where this leaves ebikes is not clear, but I reckon most would be treated as ordinary bikes.
An exception might be that £9,000 contraption that does 50mph.
As regards the 20mph limit in Brighton, the best advice must be to stick to it, not least because it's there for a reason.
Hi Morphix,
I'm still confused here,please help me out,OK by registering your bike does this mean that it is now legal to ride regardless of the power/wattage/speed etc? Would the police be less hash on you if caught speeding with or without the assistance of the motor?
Also do you need to be insured and registered at the same time? It is very useful to gain as much valuable information as possible,so that we are more fully equiped and not feel powerless.
Mountainsport
If you got your bike registered it would then be classified as a moped/motor bike (depending on power output as there is a limit for mopeds). Once registerd then all laws that apply to that class of vehicle would apply and it would no longer be considered as a bicycle.
So say it was registerd and classed as a moped. you would need relevant license,road tax, MOT, helmet etc just like any other moped. It would also mean you could not use cycle routes etc as it is no longer considered to be bicycle. Oh and breaking the speed limit would also involve penalty points and fines. whether you were using the pedals or just the motor would be completely irrelevant as it would be registerd as a motorised vehicle.
Well getting your bike certified as legally compliant is possible, but it's a complicated procedure and expensive..you have to take it to a test centre (there's very few can do it) and pay a fee and they will make sure it complies with the law and issue you a certificate.. but as flecc has pointed out, there's confusion over which standards you would apply for testing. I think the consensus is that it's the old/current UK standards which would be used for testing.
The law says you need a compliance plate fitted to the frame of the bike showing its been tested and meets legal compliance.. I'm not sure where you would get that plate or whether it's even necessary, all seems a bit vague (hence why nobody bothers to actually register their bikes, even manufacturers are selling bikes without the plate fitted and any compliance testing)..perhaps just having a paper certificate of compliance would be sufficient though if stopped by police.
Your bike would have to be fully in compliance of course with the UK (or new EU regulations) to pass the test, i.e. 250W max rated motor, 15.5mph max speed and motor that cuts out if you pedal/move faster than that. I'm not sure about the throttle situation.. EU law states bikes aren't permitted to use the motor unless pedalling so that makes throttles used without pedalling illegal (except at 3mph? for walking/pushing). The EU law is not fully ratified with existing UK law yet though (as far as I know) and we're tolerant of using throttle-only mode on bikes (up to the legal 15.5mph limit of course).
If your bike is already in legal compliance my advice would not to worry about the police or registering it, like the majority of us. The law seems to be tolerant and turning a blind eye to the fact all these e-bikes are on the roads without compliance plates or testing because of the confusion that still exists about the law and bringing UK law inline with the new EU directive on e-bikes.
If your bike does not meet the EU regulations then it's classed as an electric motor vehicle and has to be registered as such with number plates, and you'd need a driving licence/CBT testing, and insurance etc.
The problem with the police and law is only really if you're involved in an accident, especially if you're the cause of the accident and it causes someone injury or damages. In that case, the police would be likely to examine your bike very closely and if they found it was not in legal compliance, they'd do you for all the offences of riding an unlicensed, unregistered, insured, untaxed motor vehicle etc, and you could face personal liability claims against you. If you keep things legal and ride sensibly, I think the risk of that happening is minimal because you'd be classed as a bicycle in law (a road-legal e-bike is a bicycle in law).
There's no requirement to have third party liability insurance on legally complaint e-bikes, and I think getting liability insurance is not easy. Unless your bike is legal and certified I doubt any insurers would insure it. I looked at a few insurers offering travel insurance with third party liability, and they usually have clauses excluding bicycles.
Last edited:
Hi Garry,
Thanks for that,is it worth going through the whole process in regards to registering,taxing and insuring your bike making it road legal? Why dont we all do this, is it because of spending more money or just down to not wanting to be sucked in to this political palaver?
Mountainsport
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
