Adding a second motor

ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
You'll be very welcome anytime Peter, Torq, Twist and Quando II for trial. A run out together with Torq and Quando to some of the hills would enable direct comparison. See below*.
It does 10% easily for my 74 kilos and will also climb 12% unassisted, and can even do an unassisted restart on 12%. Because you're heavier, you'd need to try those for yourself.
Where extended climbing is concerned, NiMh every time, since it will never suffer cutout until empty.
Your 6' 3" is a problem here though Peter. The Quando II is only suitable for up to 6', it would have to be the suspended Quando I. Since that has bungee rear suspension it has a limited small 10 kilo carrier, not enough for touring, unlike the full size 25 kilo one on the Quando II.
Strange how so many, particularly when young, wish they were tall? :confused: I've always been pleased that I'm 5' 6", since it makes life so easy. Beds, chairs, cars etc, never any problem with getting a fit, and I'm just tall enough for bikes and motorbikes. Easier to hide when things go wrong too. :D
*I have a list of carefully measured test inclines:

Ctwd to F.D. Cresc - - - - - 0.5% - - - - 1 in 200
Ctwd to Sels Pk Rd .- - - - -1.5% - - - - 1 in 65
Courtwood Lane - - - - - - - 2% . - - - - 1 in 50
Lodge Lane - - - - - - - - - 5.5% - - - - 1 in 18
Pixton Way . - - - - - - - - - 6% - - - - - 1 in 17
Bardolph outgoing - - - - - - 7% - - - - - 1 in 14
Bardolph incoming - - - - - - 10% - - - - -1 in 10
Sorrel bank . - - - - - - - - - 10% - - - - -1 in 10
Peacock Gardens - - - - - - -12% - - - - -1 in 8
Markfield Hill - - - - - - - - - -14% - - - - -1 in 7
Markfield Path - - - - - - - - -17% - - - - -1 in 6
Markfield Lwr Path . - - - - - -22% - - - - -1 in 4.5
all within 1.5 mile radius.
The Croydon Alpes!
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Thanks for all that Flecc - I'll put all the info. in the pot and see if I can get a feasible plan.
Peter
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,760
30,348
Does the Quando have a screw on freewheel (or is it in the hub)?
I feel there might be a modification where the rear forks could be sprung.
enough to accommodate a three speed freewheel, say 12-16-22 (80x60x43 inches) - (if one can find a retro model - we are talking 1940's here).
I forgot this query Peter, and it's something else I'd already been investigating. If the rear A frame on the Quando was stretched out by about 16 to 20 mm, which should be possible, it would take the Shimano Cadet 5 speed freewheel, 14 to 28 teeth. An extra section of alloy plate would have to welded on to take the derailleur hanger.

The motor spindle has plenty of spare threaded length for that with a collar spacer, but the freewheel is on the cable side of the motor, so the eight wires would have to be separated to mount the freewheel.

That Cadet gear range of 200 % is the same range as the Torq has. With the standard Quando 48 tooth chainwheel, bottom gear would be 34", which combined with that motor would climb up the garage wall. Top would be the same 70" as at present, a bit too low.

The chainguard would just about take a 50 tooth chainwheel (no mounting for chainrings), making the bottom and top 36" and 72". A better option would be to either modify or do without the chainguard and use a 56 tooth chainwheel, giving bottom and top of 40" and 80".
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ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
A silk purse ..........?

I'll be in trouble again!
I forgot this query Peter, and it's something else I'd already been investigating. If the rear A frame on the Quando was stretched out by about 16 to 20 mm, which should be possible, it would take the Shimano Cadet 5 speed freewheel, 14 to 28 teeth. An extra section of alloy plate would have to welded on to take the derailleur hanger.
There used to be a gear hanger that fitted behind the axle nut but it was probably for Campag dropouts only. I used to have one left over from my 1970's cycling days- they were a standard part included with all rear gears

The motor spindle has plenty of spare threaded length for that with a collar spacer, but the freewheel is on the cable side of the motor, so the eight wires would have to be separated to mount the freewheel.
That is bad news. I'm useless with a soldering iron - it always ends up 'glued' to the work piece :(

That Cadet gear range of 200 % is the same range as the Torq has. With the standard Quando 48 tooth chainwheel, bottom gear would be 34", which combined with that motor would climb up the garage wall. Or the Col de Galibier? Top would be the same 70" as at present, a bit too low.
A 12 tooth top would give 80 inches if the freewheel can be disassembled

The chainguard would just about take a 50 tooth chainwheel (no mounting for chainrings), making the bottom and top 36" and 72". A better option would be to either modify or do without the chainguard and use a 56 tooth chainwheel, giving bottom and top of 40" and 80".
That's the best idea. 56 tooth single chain wheel.
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I am already working on the route - some of the cols are a bit long (17km) and steep 6%-10% - as a precaution I'm looking at French Railway Timetables that take bikes (most local trains do - why hurry).
I once had a Roberts bespoke frame and put all the parts together: it was not as difficult as this. Oh for an Electric Bike that starts as a blank sheet of paper

Peter
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,760
30,348
Trust me to find difficulties, one has occurred to me regarding your riding requirement in France. You want to be able to sit back and carry on uphill on the throttle, but that is illegal everywhere on the pedelec continent.

Normally there's some respect for national laws, but the British position isn't even clearly law or legal here, the DOT saying that it's a matter for the courts to rule. The European pedelec law was mandatory on all member nations and had to be drafted into law, and we complied with that. Therefore British citizens are bound by that, you can only use the bike switched into pedelec mode in any European country, pedalling all the time.

In Britain where there's very few electric bikes, and the law is confused anyway, we can rely on not being bothered by the police. On the continent the position could well be different, with more electric bike use, the police may well be more aware.

If the penalty is only a fine it could be worth the risk, but if as here, illegal use can result in confiscation of the vehicle, that would be a serious consequence. I think it might be wise to get that clarified. All eZee models supplied to Europe are pedelec only without brake cutouts of course.

Sorry to bring this up, but forewarned is forearmed.
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ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
Trust me to find difficulties, one has occurred to me regarding your riding requirement in France. You want to be able to sit back and carry on uphill on the throttle, but that is illegal everywhere on the pedelec continent.
But if I pretend that its in Pedelec Mode by keeping pedalling what Gendarme is to know. I take it that throttles are not illegal on the continent? So long as they are used with pedelec - if they are not legal the whole outfit will be illegal.

Normally there's some respect for national laws, but the British position isn't even clearly law or legal here, the DOT saying that it's a matter for the courts to rule. The European pedelec law was mandatory on all member nations and had to be drafted into law, and we complied with that. Therefore British citizens are bound by that, you can only use the bike switched into pedelec mode in any European country, pedalling all the time.
Or just turning the pedals all the time. Are there any bikes (apart from the old twist with the crank driving motor) with just pedelec and no twist grip? How do they regulate their speed?

In Britain where there's very few electric bikes, and the law is confused anyway, we can rely on not being bothered by the police. On the continent the position could well be different, with more electric bike use, the police may well be more aware.
I'll have to swat up a few pertinent phrases in Welsh for when I'm stopped.

If the penalty is only a fine it could be worth the risk, but if as here, illegal use can result in confiscation of the vehicle, that would be a serious consequence. I think it might be wise to get that clarified. All eZee models supplied to Europe are pedelec only without brake cutouts of course.
Even a fine, no matter how small, is a blow to my pride.

Sorry to bring this up, but forewarned is forearmed.
No, it's good to have expert advice. One can work around it.
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What I had in mind was:
Going uphill: switch off the speed limiter and pedal to make like it's pedelec. I need the power. Its more than unlikely I'll exceed 12 mph (2o kph)
Going downhill: Freewheel in pedelec mode. Any speed is legit.
On the flat: well there aint much of that to worry about. I will always be in Pedelec if its is such an issue; I don't really want to do more than 15 mph (oops I mean 25 kph).

Cheers
Peter
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,760
30,348
As long as you're happy with just spinning, that's fine Peter. With that 70" gear it's difficult to keep up with the Quando if it's in direct throttle mode and wants to run up to 15/16 mph, but in pedelec at 12/13 mph it's ok.

Must say I'd hate it if pedelec was ever enforced here as was intended.
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ITSPETEINIT

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 11, 2006
492
0
Mere, Wilts
Not a rear freewheel - a triple chainset

As long as you're happy with just spinning, that's fine Peter. With that 70" gear it's difficult to keep up with the Quando if it's in direct throttle mode and wants to run up to 15/16 mph, but in pedelec at 12/13 mph it's ok.

Must say I'd hate it if pedelec was ever enforced here as was intended.
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It's really what I do on the flat with the Torq - I can't really pretend I put in any useful effort (useful to the motor that is). I spin to catch the motor's speed just for the exercise (that of course is 15.5 mph for the moment)
The solution, if and when I get a Quando, lies in getting some gears. I can't quite 'fancy' a five speed where the electrics must be dis/re-connected and the forks sprung as much as (was it?) 20mm. The wheel would need redishing possibly.
I've come up with the idea of a triple Stronglight chainset 56/40/28 (gearing 80/58/40 inches) - these may be modified as I become more familiar with other options and get my head around what each means in terms of effort when the motor is running in either mode.
I believe I saw (incredulously) on this forum a mention of a front changer that attached somehow to the bottom bracket (more research required and possibly a question to the writer). For the moment I propose to swap cogs by hand manoeuvring the chain onto the smallest chainwwheel when I am at the bottom of the Col. It's worth it if the Col, as they usualy are, happen to be 17 km long. I am pretty sure I can fit my redundant Sora rear mech with that gizmo I mentioned yesterday to wind up the chain. On the flat the 80 inch gear might be better that its present 70 inch.
My chief problem with the Quando I is its luggage carrying capacity: 10 Kg is......well, a 2nd battery is 5.5 kg. The panniers, a tootbrush and a pair of socks would take up the remainder of the allowance. Not good for a 4 week tour! Would your Quando tow your trailer up 9% for 27 Km with little or no effort on the part of the rider?
I am still working on various solutions to the practicalities of the Quando I on my dream Tour.
Peter
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,760
30,348
My chief problem with the Quando I is its luggage carrying capacity: 10 Kg is......well, a 2nd battery is 5.5 kg. The panniers, a tootbrush and a pair of socks would take up the remainder of the allowance. Not good for a 4 week tour! Would your Quando tow your trailer up 9% for 27 Km with little or no effort on the part of the rider?
Peter
There would be a fair degree of effort required with my heavy 14 kilo trailer up 9% with the 70" gear, but with the average 5 to 7 kilo trailer rather less. A good solution is a bab-yak type one wheel trailer since that greatly reduces the drag, and if gears were added, it would be very easy for the Quando.
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