Advice about conversion kits please

[Scottyf]

there is some drag there but its not that painful. I mean i barely notice it being there. I'm more affected by the weight of the bike rather than motor drag.

You should still roll for a good long while. Either way there's alot less drag than there direct drive cousin's!

Its always going to have more drag than a normal wheel due to the internal parts being needed to rotate.

Turn your bike upside down a spin the normal wheel vs the motor wheel. The cycle wheel will rotate almost endlessly it would seem.

The other factor though is once the motor wheel is spinning it should have more inertia to keep it rotating forward.

 

[flecc]

It would also be interesting to see the members' ages against their perceptions of hub motor drag.

I know that some of those who protest most vigorously that there is no drag are at the younger end of the forum profile.

 

[Scottyf]

Oh no, there is definetly drag. There is no way I would question that it would have "No Drag".
I'm relativly young at 26 but I notice it. Even more so when you go above the 15mph limit then it feels like your fighting the motor plus wind to get a higher top speed.

I jsut feel there are probably other factors in my opinion that have more of an affect on my riding rather than the hub.

 

[Scottyf]

Oh no, there is definetly drag. There is no way I would question that it would have "No Drag".
I'm relativly young at 26 but I notice it. Even more so when you go above the 15mph limit then it feels like your fighting the motor plus wind to get a higher top speed.

I jsut feel there are probably other factors in my opinion that have more of an affect on my riding rather than the hub.

 

[flecc]

That's when I find it most Scotty. I used to ride my 28" wheel hub-motor bike at up to 12 mph without too much awareness of drag, but from 13 mph I started to notice it and above 15 mph it was a real pain. I completely rebuilt that bike for maximum efficiency and equipped it with skinny efficient tyres which improved matters, but of course that highlighted the motor's component of the drag once the rest had been attended to.

Technically they shouldn't drag at all, but it seems there is something obscure going on at times, possibly due to the clutch design and manufacturing variations.

 

[Scottyf]

I used to let go of the throttle and shut down the pedelec sensor when travelling above the limit. I used to find that once they where off, ie clutch disengaged I could push another couple mph out of my own leg power and also coast faster.

So I agree its similar to your experience.

However, as long as you have battery power you can drop your speed and pottle along without alot of effort. maybe the drag increases with a larger current thats being supplied.

 

[Oiseaux]

I have tried out two Bafang 8 fun motors now and I can only say that both of them were very hard going with the electrical assist off. However as I have posted elsewhere, I have also tried the Sanyo hub motor on a Giant and couldn't notice any drag on the first test, and only a slight, and I mean slight, drag on the second test which was on a different machine.

 

[NRG]

Well its interesting that the likes of eZee went and designed their own motor, Oxygen are developing a better freewheel, Wisper selected a Japanese motor (can't recall the manufacturer) and Raleigh are using the LBH motor noted for its freewheel ability and reported as such in A to B...there maybe others I'm not aware of...its obviously an area of concern that manufacturers are keen to address...

Raleigh pictures here: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/8055-raleigh-ebike-test-day-21st-april-3.html

 

[flecc]

Well its interesting that the likes of eZee went and designed their own motor, Oxygen are developing a better freewheel, Wisper selected a Japanese motor (can't recall the manufacturer) and Raleigh are using the LBH motor noted for its freewheel ability and reported as such in A to B...there maybe others I'm not aware of...its obviously an area of concern that manufacturers are keen to address...

Maybe the newer side plate cable entry SB motors are better, this drift by e-bike makers to other products must push them into improvements to preserve their market. I do wish d8veh had been a bit more open minded and prepared to look into this subject better before storming out of the forum.

 

[NRG]

Maybe the newer side plate cable entry SB motors are better, this drift by e-bike makers to other products must push them into improvements to preserve their market. I do wish d8veh had been a bit more open minded and prepared to look into this subject better before storming out of the forum.

Oh he's still reading Flecc

Yes maybe they are...also differentiation in any market is natural and welcome. A bike is a bike is a bike within reason, there's not much you can do with a design that reached its optimum oh...how many years ago 100? I don't know....apart from small differences in component choice and paint colour theres not a lot left to tweak to create that difference. With electric bikes theres possibly more scope especially if you can get away from the midrange stuff based around the ubiquitous Bafang motor...I welcome it and plan to build something later in the year... good time ahead I think.

 

[flecc]

I hope he is and that he knows he is very welcome back in with no ill feelings whatsoever.

I too like the refreshingly new e-bike motor scene now, more innovation and new names than there has been since the 1999 to 2001 period, well overdue.

The older names will have to buck their ideas up and there are signs of that happening. Even Heinzmann belatedly have a brushless motor now after well over 80 years of the brush ones, though they seem to be treating it as a secret!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Well its interesting that the likes of eZee went and designed their own motor, Oxygen are developing a better freewheel, Wisper selected a Japanese motor (can't recall the manufacturer) and Raleigh are using the LBH motor noted for its freewheel ability and reported as such in A to B...there maybe others I'm not aware of...its obviously an area of concern that manufacturers are keen to address...

Raleigh pictures here: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/8055-raleigh-ebike-test-day-21st-april-3.html

In our opinion it is a huge issue NRG, we have been working on it for a while now. The new Japanese Dapu system used on DaaHub, Alpinos and SELs though expensive has no perceivable drag. I think most decent manufacturers of hub drives take drag very seriously. It is important, as many choose hub drive because the whole cycling experience is closer to the pedal cycle simple but with added power. It is very important to a good percentage of these riders that they can turn the bike off and ride the bike freely using legs only!

All the best

David

 

[NRG]

Thanks David, the DaaHub is high on my list for a new project I'm planning to start at the end of the year...

 

[Oiseaux]

Is the DaaHub available yet?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Oiseaux, the first lot have just arrived but these are all sold, the next batch will arrive at the end of June.

All the best

David

 

[Caph]

Hi Oiseaux, I've got a 180W brushless 24V SB motor, a 36V brushed YPS01 by Hangzhou I think, and an SB 8FUN 36V (SWXK I believe) 250W 36V brushless as sold by SunLova.

The two SB's have no discernable drag (the 180W being slightly better on a wheel spin test), but the YPS01 is a pig to ride unpowered. Unless you want to ride your conversion kit with constant assistance then you definitely want to check out the drag before you buy.

The current 8FUN (and probably most nowadays) allow different power assistance levels in pedelec mode. Obviously putting it in low power mode will dramatically increase the range while still helping you out up the hills but the crucial point here is that this low powered mode will be rendered useless if you have discernable drag while cycling unassisted on the flat because you'll very quickly get sick of the feeling of cycling with someone holding you back. There doesn't really have to be that much drag for it to be noticeable and ruin your cycling experience. However, if you are wanting to always cycle with full power then the drag factor is rendered redundant.

You might also want to consider the noise of the motor as well as the control panel features. A noisy motor can really ruin your ebiking experience through quiet country lanes and bridleways. Equally, if you can't set assistance levels from the control panel and you are wanting to be able to do 40-50 mile trips then the lack of low power assistance mode will mean the kit will be no good to you.

Are you currently looking at buying a kit or are you just interested in general?

 

[Robocol]

On past record I'm afraid the majority in this forum have found the drag to be significant d8veh, but of course these things are only of importance to each individual so each must try for themselves. Personally I've never found any SB motored bike to get anywhere near the freedom of running of a Panasonic powered bike, most for me being miserable to pedal without power.

Not me and had the Heinzman for 12 years.

 

[flecc]

Not me and had the Heinzman for 12 years.

If you check my text I said SB motor, not Heinzmann, they are radically different in several ways.

SB = Suzhou Bafang

 

[Oiseaux]

Are you currently looking at buying a kit or are you just interested in general?

I will be very interested to hear independent reviews on the DaaHub kit, there again, Iv'e been watching a video showing a Tonaro Bighit strutting its stuff through the off road trails of Cromer and I have to confess to a very large adrenalin rush when I view this.