Anyone else ordered Trek nano (Cytronex)?

[Chris_Bike]

Hi Everyone,
I've been lurking around this site for a bit and finally signed up! A bikie for 50years (now more of a bar stool type) my wife got interested in electric bikes (she noticed Presteigne last year) and I love engineering!
We went to Prestiegne to have a look and probably order a Pro-select or two - then we saw the Treks....... There is no doubt that the Pro-select is a fabulously engineered bit of kit and lovely to ride. The Panasonic drive system is just so synergistic with normal riding. But...... I fell in love with the "normal bike" feel of the Trek. I know the range will be lower that proper pedelecs with bigger batteries but I guess I can aways carry a second battery. I certainly agree with the poster on another thread that the 2 speed drive is very intuitive and easy to use.
Anyway, what did others who went to Presteigne feel? I think Lynne and I were orders 1 and 2 for Mark and Sam! Were any of you 3 and 4?
Chris

 

[stokepa31_mk2]

Hi Chris

If its not a rude question, might I enquire about the cost and any other info you have such as range etc.

The website says comng soon so little is known.

Regards
Paul

 

[Chris_Bike]

Hi Paul,
£950 - It is basically a Trek 7.3 FX (£350) with the same motor unit as the Brompton Nano and a 156WH NiMH battery in a modified water bottle (a bit like some very expensive lighting systems). The Brompton Nano conversion kit costs about £550, so the price seems reasonable.
What attracted me was the weight (17Kg inc battery) and the fact that I felt like I was on a real bike. It doesn't have a throttle control, but two "speeeds". Both felt nippy on the flat and the fact taht the Brompton Nano has had good write-ups on the hills leads me to hope that the Trek will deliver in mid-Wales, where I will mostly use it.
I will let you all know when it arrives!
Chris

 

[stokepa31_mk2]

Hi Paul,
£950 - It is basically a Trek 7.3 FX (£350) with the same motor unit as the Brompton Nano and a 156WH NiMH battery in a modified water bottle (a bit like some very expensive lighting systems). The Brompton Nano conversion kit costs about £550, so the price seems reasonable.
What attracted me was the weight (17Kg inc battery) and the fact that I felt like I was on a real bike. It doesn't have a throttle control, but two "speeeds". Both felt nippy on the flat and the fact taht the Brompton Nano has had good write-ups on the hills leads me to hope that the Trek will deliver in mid-Wales, where I will mostly use it.
I will let you all know when it arrives!
Chris

Many thanks Chris

I am currently looking at options for september's cycle to work scheme renewal so £950 seems very reasonable for this set up.

I wonder if they will do custom jobs on the more expensive Trek's and would the carbon fx take a kit.

Thnks for the info

Regards
Paul

 

[Chris_Bike]

ps Quoted range is 20 miles (using assist about 60% of time - which makes sense in relation to Brompton Nano reviews) C

 

[Chris_Bike]

I asked the FX carbon question and was told there was an issue with the Bontrager forks. I might try a fork upgrade in due course - there are plenty of cheap carbon forks on Ebay. Other ways to lose weight are probably mainly in the drivechain (esp. chainset) but, since I currently weigh 14 st, that is probably more of an issue! Chris

 

[domeld]

I tried the Cytronex bike at Presteigne and was very impressed with the feel of it so I can see why you bought two of them! Some features which I liked:

1. The motor is virtually silent when riding
2. It looks just like a normal bike, with the motor being so small and the battery carefully disguised as a water bottle.
3. It rides just like a normal bike when without power.
4. I tried it on a short section of steepish hill and it performed very well, it was quite easy to ride up it (however, I'm not sure what the gradient was).
5. It is fun to ride!

The motor actually felt more powerful than the Nano kit, which I tried on the Brompton and on a Dahon 26inch folder, but I'm not sure why this is as they said it is the same motor, maybe because of the gearing? Or is it a higher power model?

I look forward to hearing more of your experience with the bike!

 

[frank9755]

I think it's an interesting set-up.

The switch idea is a good one, recognising that most electric bike throttles are little more than on/off switches. I actually adapted my Wisper to operate using the on/off throttle switch for a time.

The issue with Tongxin applications is reliability, in particular of the controllers. If the guys selling this can offer guarantees that Tongxin has cracked the quality problems, or that they can fix at component level, this could be a great bike. If they are not convincing on that point, I'd avoid until proven.

The kit actually costs less than £100 and the battery perhaps £120. These numbers would be a bit less for bulk orders. That leaves some margin for the guys to be able to offer some support and still make some money, if they sell a decent number.

In case you haven't seen the threads (here and here), a couple of us experimented with Tongxin motors a few months ago. Mine lasted a couple of hundred miles, Jeremy's is going strong (last I heard...fingers crossed!) and John's has had a few set-backs but is still on the road too.

Schwinn also tried a Tongxin set-up, which also failed. See AtoB review from last year for details.

I hope it's successful.

 

[john]

Interestingly, my setup is quite similar to the Trek-nano. My TongXin motor is on a Trek 4300 and has two 'cruise' switches, which I use a lot, as well as a throttle. Could do with setting up some brake or pedal sensors though.

 

[john]

ps Quoted range is 20 miles (using assist about 60% of time - which makes sense in relation to Brompton Nano reviews) C

Hmmm... I can't see 156WH realistically going 20 miles, most of the energy would have to come from the rider.

 

[flecc]

Hmmm... I can't see 156WH realistically going 20 miles, most of the energy would have to come from the rider.

I agree with John on this, it could even be nearer to half that in hilly North Wales.
.

 

[frank9755]

Hmmm... I can't see 156WH realistically going 20 miles, most of the energy would have to come from the rider.

Yes, good point, John - 4.3 Ah...! That is smaller than any battery fitted to a mainstream electric bike, but it still might be ok.

I assume it is a similar set-up to the Nano kit - ie most power does indeed come from the rider. If they have used the 160 rpm motor, geared for a max of 15mph, the motor will only be used on hills, as you will be otherwise travelling above the maximum, taking advantage of the Tongxin's low resistance and the fact that a decent bike is easy for most fit people to ride on the flat/downhill without needing assistance.

On a configuration like this, estimating range is next to impossible. On flat road with no headwind, the battery would not be used at all and you'd get infinite range. Probably it would give you something like 10-15 minutes of moderate hill-climbing assistance. It might get you 5 or 10 miles in the Lake District and 50-100 miles on a calm day in Norfolk!

If it proves reliable, it could still be a very good bike. Obviously it is not one for someone who does need assistance on the flat or who wants to ride on power-only.

I wonder if they are using the Tongxin controller, or have found an alternative? Also, where have they mounted it?

Edit - crossed with Flecc's post

 

[JohnInStockie]

They are def using the Tongxin, I asked.

From what they were saying, the bike was specifically aimed at commuters, and specefically at people that want to give up the car for the journey to work. Thats why I assume they have gone for this set up.

My hesitation is also the reliability of the motor, after all at £150 a battery, you could always buy 2.

John

 

[john]

I wonder if they are using the Tongxin controller, or have found an alternative?

Yes, I was wondering that too. I understand that power only comes in above 5mph which would imply new electronics.

 

[frank9755]

They are def using the Tongxin, I asked.

Tongxin controller?

If so, has it been improved?

It might fare better in this application than my higher current version, but I'd want to be confident that the seller has actually tested this application and got at least a few hundred miles / a few months with no controller problems.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Just had an answer from mark@no-hills.com on this very question, his answer was...

We are using a Tongxin controller but it is a special version for us with high current handling. Other than that all the electronics are quality european components, such as the switches which are used in the US electric Lotus.

And on warranty...

We provide a one year warranty. We have done thousands of miles on our bikes without incident.

John

 

[Chris_Bike]

Hi All,

I'm pleased that this thread has attracted attention and grateful for all the comments. With regard to reliability, the developer commented to me in an email as follows: "I have done thousands of miles without any faults. I wouldn't be doing it if I thought we were storing up problems for ourselves!"

The set-up comes with a 1 yr guarantee, but that's not exactly the issue as we hope nothing goes wrong! How have recent Brompton Nano's been reliability-wise?

I'm sure your various assessments re. range are true if power is used constantly, but we having been looking for something to help on serious hills only. I don't even envisage turning the thing on for the flat. I suspect, nonetheless, that a second battery is a good idea (it can go in a second bottle cage).

I believe that the controller is in a plastic unit that fixes (fairly unobtrusively) on the underside of the down-tube.

Thank's again for the interest and keep the comments coming.

Chris

 

[Chris_Bike]

Just had an answer from mark@no-hills.com on this very question, his answer was...

We are using a Tongxin controller but it is a special version for us with high current handling. Other than that all the electronics are quality european components, such as the switches which are used in the US electric Lotus.

And on warranty...

We provide a one year warranty. We have done thousands of miles on our bikes without incident.

John

Thanks John. I thinked we posted our last two almost simultaneously! Chris

 

[flecc]

How have recent Brompton Nano's been reliability-wise?

Thank's again for the interest and keep the comments coming.

Chris

I understand the Nano Bromptons have been reliable, but this isn't a fair comparison. In the Brompton's 16" wheel it's geared for 13 to 14 mph maximum, which gives the motor a very easy time. In your case it's probably important to choose a version that gives it's assistance at similarly low speeds, since you only want it to assist with hill climbing. This will go some way to simulating the Brompton conditions of use.
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

Hi Chris

Yes I too think that as they have designed this themselves rather than importing, they obviously believe very much in their product, and that definately came across too when you discussed it with them.

Thats why its such a hard decision for me to pick one, Trek-Nano or Wisper If they were as experienced in this business as Wisper then I would feel more confident, but they still have a long way to go, and at the moment Wisper have that edge. Having said that, most of the parts on this bike are standard parts repairable/replacable at any bike shop, and the motor is well known too.

decisions, decisions!!!

John