Battery Guarantees

[Mattyduk]

echoing some of the thoughts here, I thought (mistakenly) that once I moved away from the lead acid batteries, I would not experience any battery degradation on my Kalkhoff pro connect, purchased 15 months ago.

I didn't even use the bike this Winter due to commitments at home, so I've probably used it for a total of 10 months. During the Winter I kept the battery in the house and recharged it once a month.

My trip to work and back is only around 7 miles, only one main hill, but even that's not a total killer, and I mainly use medium power setting

I've now found that a bike that could almost do 5*7 mile trips on one charge, is now limited to 3*7 (and the last 7 miles of that were done on the low power setting,otherwise I wouldn't have made it).

I wonder what 50cycles view on this would be ? Would they exchange, or would they claim that I didn't use the battery correctly, because I mainly used it until it get to 1 light on the handlebar meter.

 

[HarryB]

echoing some of the thoughts here, I thought (mistakenly) that once I moved away from the lead acid batteries, I would not experience any battery degradation on my Kalkhoff pro connect, purchased 15 months ago.

I didn't even use the bike this Winter due to commitments at home, so I've probably used it for a total of 10 months. During the Winter I kept the battery in the house and recharged it once a month.

My trip to work and back is only around 7 miles, only one main hill, but even that's not a total killer, and I mainly use medium power setting

I've now found that a bike that could almost do 5*7 mile trips on one charge, is now limited to 3*7 (and the last 7 miles of that were done on the low power setting,otherwise I wouldn't have made it).

I wonder what 50cycles view on this would be ? Would they exchange, or would they claim that I didn't use the battery correctly, because I mainly used it until it get to 1 light on the handlebar meter.

Presumably you have done a conditioning complete discharge to re-set the meter, also when you press and hold the battery button for 10 seconds or more how many lights light up - it should be 5 (each light represents 2 Ah)

Your use is not that unusual so I am surprised that you have had this sort of degradation. You shouldn't even have to keep charging every month as the battery's bms protects it from self discharge. Make sure you do the conditioning discharge and then the battery test as above and then talk to 50 cycles - they are very reasonable about the 2 year guarantee.

 

[dan]

Although NiMh cells are still obtainable, the best high discharge types are no longer made, only the shorter lived lower discharge rate types around now. I would have happily stuck to NiMh on my eZee bikes rather than the unreliable lithium, but with eZee unable to obtain cells with a discharge rate suitable for their powerful motors, that wasn't an option.
.

Good high discharge Ni-Mh D size cells are still made, but aftermarked demand is so low for D size cells, that it it not worthwhile to stock them. Ni-Mh cells do have quite a short shelf life, and when making packs with 20 cells (24 volt) or 30 cells (36 volt) individual cells have to be selected with matching internal resistance to get a long service life, also the cut off voltage in the pack has to be set at a higher level than lead acid or lithium.

 

[dan]

My trip to work and back is only around 7 miles, only one main hill, but even that's not a total killer, and I mainly use medium power setting

I've now found that a bike that could almost do 5*7 mile trips on one charge, is now limited to 3*7 (and the last 7 miles of that were done on the low power setting,otherwise I wouldn't have made it).

I wonder what 50cycles view on this would be ? Would they exchange, or would they claim that I didn't use the battery correctly, because I mainly used it until it get to 1 light on the handlebar meter.

I think you should be charging your battery after each 7 mile trip.....waiting till it is completly flat to charge it is not a good idea....did someone tell you to run it flat before charging....if so that was bad advice....what did 5o cyles advise when you bought the battery?

 

[flecc]

Good high discharge Ni-Mh D size cells are still made, but aftermarked demand is so low for D size cells, that it it not worthwhile to stock them. Ni-Mh cells do have quite a short shelf life, and when making packs with 20 cells (24 volt) or 30 cells (36 volt) individual cells have to be selected with matching internal resistance to get a long service life, also the cut off voltage in the pack has to be set at a higher level than lead acid or lithium.

It's the price of those best ones that's the problem though, eZee were unable to find any at a viable price for manufacture combined with an adequate discharge rate. Hence them discontinuing the NiMh option.

I was aware of the technical difficulties in manufacture of course, but that didn't contribute to the discontinuation.

On the retail market, the best high discharge cells were around £10/11 each last time I looked, which makes self re-celling uneconomic for 36 volts batteries needing 30 cells, especially when some over-ordering is necessary to achieve a matched set of 30.

I've tried a couple of the cheaper cell options and they simply can't deliver the demands of eZee's most powerful motors.
.

 

[Mattyduk]

Presumably you have done a complete conditioning discharge to re-set the meter, also when you press and hold the battery button for 10 seconds or more how many lights light up - it should be 5 (each light represents 2 Ah)

Yes, I did the 5 light test this week, and 5 lights came on. How do I do a complete conditioning discharge ? I basically just got to work this morning with the 1 light flashing on the handlebars.

cheers

Mat

 

[Mattyduk]

I think you should be charging your battery after each 7 mile trip.....waiting till it is completly flat to charge it is not a good idea....did someone tell you to run it flat before charging....if so that was bad advice....what did 5o cyles advise when you bought the battery?

Nobody advised me of that - one way or the other. I just thought that if I was buying a bike with a 30 odd mile range then that's what I'd do on it before charging the battery - I had got into charging my old lead acid battery after each 7 mile trip because the battery had degraded.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I did the 5 light test this week, and 5 lights came on. How do I do a complete conditioning discharge ? I basically just got to work this morning with the 1 light flashing on the handlebars.

cheers

Mat

The full conditioning charge to accurately set the meter is using it until the fast flashing final LED stage. The full conditioning story is on my Panasonic website on this link.

The full index for that website is on this link.
.

 

[HarryB]

Nobody advised me of that - one way or the other. I just thought that if I was buying a bike with a 30 odd mile range then that's what I'd do on it before charging the battery - I had got into charging my old lead acid battery after each 7 mile trip because the battery had degraded.

It was always the advice for li-ions that you should charge often and NOT use the last bit of charge as that stresses the cells. More recently on this forum we have been saying that you should not charge too frequently as this also stresses the cells. So using this advice you should be able to work out how often to charge - perhaps after 14 miles if this is convenient?

 

[dan]

Nobody advised me of that - one way or the other. I just thought that if I was buying a bike with a 30 odd mile range then that's what I'd do on it before charging the battery - I had got into charging my old lead acid battery after each 7 mile trip because the battery had degraded.

Well if you were fully discharging your lead acid batteries before charging them, thats what killed them off.

With your lithium battery I would say charging after 7 miles use is good, if you keep to that you should get life out of them.

 

[Mattyduk]

The full conditioning charge to accurately set the meter is using it until the fast flashing final LED stage. The full conditioning story is on my Panasonic website on this link.

The full index for that website is on this link.
.

thanks for that, so is that fast flashing on the handlebar readout ?

Once I've done this I'll do what Harryb suggests and charge every 2to3 days.

thanks for the replies. Perhaps I missed the bit in the Kalkhoff manual which discussed frequency of charging....

 

[flecc]

thanks for that, so is that fast flashing on the handlebar readout ?

Once I've done this I'll do what Harryb suggests and charge every 2to3 days.

thanks for the replies. Perhaps I missed the bit in the Kalkhoff manual which discussed frequency of charging....

Yes, it changes from slow flash to fast flash on the handlebar display, the change is unmistakable. I also agree that charging at either 7 or 14 miles would be best for a good life.
.

 

[Mattyduk]

seems that my "battery" issues might be a bit more deep rooted, as each time I've charged the battery (for the last 3 times), it's blown the fuse in the charger, and after changing the fuse, it charges, but does the same thing when I try and charge again next time

 

[flecc]

Yes, you definitely need to contact 50cycles about that now, it has to be an internal fault to produce a short circuit blowing the fuse.
.

 

[Mattyduk]

Yes, you definitely need to contact 50cycles about that now, it has to be an internal fault to produce a short circuit blowing the fuse.
.

thanks, sent them an email via their website. I'll report back what they want to do.

 

[Mattyduk]

got a few replies from 50cycles. They hadn't heard of the issue and contacted Germany. They came back blanks as well.

However, I've noticed that the fuse only blows when I connect the battery to the charger when it's plugged in. If I connect the battery, then plug in the charger, then no issues.

Will hold off for a bit longer as it seems ok at the moment. I'm also charging every two days (14 miles).

 

[dan]

got a few replies from 50cycles. They hadn't heard of the issue and contacted Germany. They came back blanks as well.

However, I've noticed that the fuse only blows when I connect the battery to the charger when it's plugged in. If I connect the battery, then plug in the charger, then no issues.

Will hold off for a bit longer as it seems ok at the moment. I'm also charging every two days (14 miles).

first rule of charging, allways connect the charger to the battery before you plug it in

 

[Mussels]

first rule of charging, allways connect the charger to the battery before you plug it in

If that's a requirement then I assume it says so on the charger?

 

[Mattyduk]

If that's a requirement then I assume it says so on the charger?

no it doesn't, just ACHTUNG ! and a few other bits in German

When I charge my other lithium battery devices, such as Iphone, IPAD, DS, PSP, even my ancient Tapwave Zodiac - I don't have to put the device on the charger, then plug the charger in.

So it's either a fault or by design.

 

[HarryB]

no it doesn't, just ACHTUNG ! and a few other bits in German

When I charge my other lithium battery devices, such as Iphone, IPAD, DS, PSP, even my ancient Tapwave Zodiac - I don't have to put the device on the charger, then plug the charger in.

So it's either a fault or by design.

It blows a fuse so it is a fault. Get 50 cycles to send you another charger and if that blows then another battery. Better to get this problem sorted out asap (well before the guarantee runs out).