Bms battery 36v front wheel with bottle battery installation and review

Geebee

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 26, 2010
1,256
227
Australia
crimps are 10 times more reliable than soldering, no straddling conductors and the joints don't break. I use a £10 crimping tool, a bit fiddly but OK.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Auto-Marine-Terminal-Crimping-Tool-Suitable-For-No-Insulated-Terminals-/301194397582
I have to disagree with you on this, on bikes with crimp connections I always suffer heated connections, wires pulling out and reliability issues, after soldering no problems ever!
Also 35 years making a living working on electronic equipment I have found the same issue with a small percentage of crimped joints never with soldered connectors as oppose to PCB connections.
Being paranoid I often crimp and solder, and at the first sign of issues I solder all crimped connectors.

For the ultimate in reliability and a neat finish, solder the wires and heat shrink without connectors.
 

Julien

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 8, 2013
20
2
Cables and connectors are definitely a dig challenge for beginners. Decent soldering skills could be useful to fit cable length and solder the cables directly on the PCB. It's not easy at all but it would be neat. For future work I will invest in cheap cramping tools but I would very like to be able to solder directly without a sweat. There is a detailed PDF on soldering/cramping pedelecs connectors I think over ebikes.ca
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
162
I'm something of an Adrian Monk when it comes to wiring.

Fifty years ago, I served my apprenticeship in the GPO telephone service, (as it was known then). Telephone Exchanges were pre-computerised and even pre-electronic, so they contained miles of cables with millions of connections and soldered joints. The training schools made you "do it again" if the staples or loom lacing was not exactly equidistant. Wiring was almost an art form.

The damn habit has followed me through life, with all my houses, cars, boats, and now ebikes. Every time I buy one, I usually end up rewiring it. :rolleyes:
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
There's nothing better to see than a big control cabinet properly wired with all the cables tied and labelled. As you say, you can't help but stand back and admire the skill and the patience of the guy that did it.
 
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peerjay56

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 24, 2013
745
199
Nr Ingleton, N. Yorkshire
I'm something of an Adrian Monk when it comes to wiring.

Fifty years ago, I served my apprenticeship in the GPO telephone service, (as it was known then). Telephone Exchanges were pre-computerised and even pre-electronic, so they contained miles of cables with millions of connections and soldered joints. The training schools made you "do it again" if the staples or loom lacing was not exactly equidistant. Wiring was almost an art form.

The damn habit has followed me through life, with all my houses, cars, boats, and now ebikes. Every time I buy one, I usually end up rewiring it. :rolleyes:
You didn't have to play on the telephone pole farm near Solihull, did you? Used to see guys up those poles in all weathers.
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
162
You didn't have to play on the telephone pole farm near Solihull, did you? Used to see guys up those poles in all weathers.
No, I lived and worked in London, so my pole farm stint was at Bletchley Park.

The strange thing though, we had no idea of the history of the place then (in the 1960's)... :)
 
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Julien

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 8, 2013
20
2
Hi Everyone !

Sorry for the late response ... crazy weeks ....

So at last I've tried out the bike, should have planned a little test run but I did not find the time and just commuted to work yesterday.

attached are the details of my trip, around 26 km round trip with some serious elevation.

The battery was pretty much drained when I got home (and it was uphill so I was really afraid to run out of battery ...)

On the downhill part, the ride was easy :
- On flat part : around 30 to 40 km/h with no pedaling.
- Downhill : up to 60 km / h which was kind of too fast
- Uphill : with 5 % elevation I could maintain 20 km / h speed with moderate pedaling

On my way back I ran into more steep elevation, around 10 %. I took quite a effort to stay between 15 to 20 km/h, I arrived all sweaty but it was intended as the scope was to get to work fast and effortless and go back home with some cardio workout :)

So in the end, 30 min forward and 35 min back. that's acceptable. Today I made the downhill part in 25 min, nice :)

Concerning the performance, I confirmed that 328 rpm Q100 motor with 10 amp max continous battery is a little weak. The torque is not very good and the uphill part could use some additional amps.

I think It would have been more wise to :
- get a 201 prm motor and a cheap 48 v battery
or
- get a better battery with higher discharge rate

Apart from that I run into this error :
01_error Throttle Signal Abnormality;
-> It happens when I go back and forth to quickly/opten with the throttle

And the biggest issue and very frustrating is that when I push the throttle and that the load is to high the power shut down, which means I have to start pedalling to lower the load before pushing the throttle. Happens uphill at low speed / start. I don't know if it's the controller or the battery that shut down, the battery should be able to supply 20 amp for a short time so I assume it's the controller that limit the current to 16 amp if I remember well, but I don't understand why the controller stop instead of just limiting to 16 amp ... By the way does anyone know how long can a battery supply it's max discharge rate ? Because it could make a big difference for the uphill part and make the shunt mod more interesting ....

Julien
 

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jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,811
319
the Cornish Alps
Interesting - Looks to me like you're pushing the system well beyond its capabilities.
40kph on the flat with no pedalling?
 

Julien

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 8, 2013
20
2
Between 30 and 40 Km/h and it seems pretty high indeed, I tried so simulate this set up with the e bike simulator and it should fall around 28 km/h with a 10 amp output, and with 16 amp output the speed should be around 36 km/h (see attachment)

Maybe the BMS on the battery is not limiting the current as much as advertised....
 

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KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
2,690
677
Brighton
Hi Everyone !

Sorry for the late response ... crazy weeks ....

So at last I've tried out the bike, should have planned a little test run but I did not find the time and just commuted to work yesterday.

attached are the details of my trip, around 26 km round trip with some serious elevation.

The battery was pretty much drained when I got home (and it was uphill so I was really afraid to run out of battery ...)

On the downhill part, the ride was easy :
- On flat part : around 30 to 40 km/h with no pedaling.
- Downhill : up to 60 km / h which was kind of too fast
- Uphill : with 5 % elevation I could maintain 20 km / h speed with moderate pedaling

On my way back I ran into more steep elevation, around 10 %. I took quite a effort to stay between 15 to 20 km/h, I arrived all sweaty but it was intended as the scope was to get to work fast and effortless and go back home with some cardio workout :)

So in the end, 30 min forward and 35 min back. that's acceptable. Today I made the downhill part in 25 min, nice :)

Concerning the performance, I confirmed that 328 rpm Q100 motor with 10 amp max continous battery is a little weak. The torque is not very good and the uphill part could use some additional amps.

I think It would have been more wise to :
- get a 201 prm motor and a cheap 48 v battery
or
- get a better battery with higher discharge rate

Apart from that I run into this error :
01_error Throttle Signal Abnormality;
-> It happens when I go back and forth to quickly/opten with the throttle

And the biggest issue and very frustrating is that when I push the throttle and that the load is to high the power shut down, which means I have to start pedalling to lower the load before pushing the throttle. Happens uphill at low speed / start. I don't know if it's the controller or the battery that shut down, the battery should be able to supply 20 amp for a short time so I assume it's the controller that limit the current to 16 amp if I remember well, but I don't understand why the controller stop instead of just limiting to 16 amp ... By the way does anyone know how long can a battery supply it's max discharge rate ? Because it could make a big difference for the uphill part and make the shunt mod more interesting ....

Julien
Overvolting a 36v 201 rpm setup to 48v will get you approx 22 or 23 mph on the flat with no pedalling (unrestricted with a 15a controller)
So your speed will reduce but you'll get better torque

I do fully appreciate this is a sweeping statement and motors/controllers vary!

Still been lurking around here and using ebikes for a few years now so I think it's a good rough guide

There's nothing like use though. After a year of commuting on my current setup I now know for sure what I want when my motor or battery gives up . I mean terms of the trade off between weight, torque, speed and price
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
The 328 rpm Q100 in a 26" wheel is OK as long as you're light or as long as you can keep the speed up. It will draw maximum current nearly all the time you're below 25km/h so the motor and controller will get quite warm and the battery will get used up quickly. Whatever you do, don't go above 15 amps.

The 201 rpm one at 48v becomes a 260 rpm one, so would be a better balance of speed, torque and efficiency in a 26" wheel.

You can also buy a 260 rpm Q100H. If you buy a bare one, it's easy to swap the cores. You can then bump up the current to 18 amps, which will only be given when you need it compared with your present 15 amps nearly all the time, which is giving your battery a very hard time.
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,811
319
the Cornish Alps
Overvolting a 36v 201 rpm setup to 48v will get you approx 22 or 23 mph on the flat with no pedalling (unrestricted with a 15a controller)
So your speed will reduce but you'll get better torque
Umm... Isn't that fore-side-back?

I've been known to grasp the sticky end of the stick on occasion :confused:
 

Julien

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 8, 2013
20
2
Thanks for all the comments. I'm up to 85 km on the bike in 2h25min with is quite good IMHO. Last friday I took another route which involved more elevation but with a lower steep. Made it in less time but it was more difficult and took a heavy toll on my legs. attached the profile and paces. Took 32 min with an average speed of 24.34 km / h.

I'm pleased with the results. My commuting take around 25 min forth and 35 min back and 27 km total, not bad ...

Hope It will help me drop some weight and eventually improve these figures :)
 

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Julien

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 8, 2013
20
2
Funny story, yesteday on the way back I took a shorcut offroad and run into a dead end, the road was blocked pretty much 400 meter before getting home ...

I got a little lost and made some deadly detour and the battery run out after descending to the nearest village and I had to up 200 meter elevation in 1.5 km, pretty steep. To get thing more interesting it was raining crazy... attached the profile.

Men It was harsh .. but lesson learned is that a full charge let me ride :
forth : 13 km / elevation 250 m / 25 min
lunch break : 1.5 km / 5 min
Back : 16 km / elevation 400 m / 1 h

So around 30 km, elevation 650 meter / 1h30 running time

the 36v 10.4 ah is a little weak for my commuting I will need to learn to me more gentle with the throttle to prevent the battery from draining when I really need it ...
 

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Julien

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 8, 2013
20
2
Just a little update after 1 month of commuting :
- I rode 500 km at an average pace of 29 km / h with the current set up
- The battery capacity barely enough to make a round trip full throttle so I learned to use the throttle gently
- The wear on the bike is important, gears and brakes are worrying
- I'm concerned about the mileage of the battery and overall performance drop

So right now I'm in the process of turning the MTB into a better commuter, I will be changing to road friendly tire, doing some maintenance and fine tuning on gears and brakes. The next step would be to change the front fork to a steel one suspension free.

I'm thinking about installing an additional q100h on the rear wheel with a 20 amp controller and 20 amp discharge battery. I'm trying to figure how that would behave with elevation and pedalling and made some charts and it's not easy to understand the overall behavour...
From my understanding, if you can achieve a speed geater than 35 km/h than the rear q100h would be a drag in term of efficiency but when the load is high enough to drop the speed below 35 km/h it's the front q100 that would become less efficient. But at some point when you get to serious elevation you need the q100 power to get the speed in a better efficiency range ... guess I would just use both of them all the time ...

So with decent pedalling (100w) I'd get :
0 % elevation -> 38 km/h at 18 wh per km
5 % elevation -> 34 km/h at 27 wh per km
10 % elevation -> 30 km/h at 42 wh per km

Thinking about climbing these hills at 30 km/h sound awesome :)
 

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