If she has a valid passport she has every right to come here. If she has broken some law or if she breaks one when she gets back - then she will have that to deal with.
Otherwise - we're a country of laws. That's how it works.
Brexit, for once some facts.
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Otherwise - we're a country of laws. That's how it works.
And coming from the most strongly fundamentalist Christian denomination dense section of the British Isles ,your words lack a certain compassion.
Perhaps you read but failed to understand what I wrote. Had she been an adult, at the time of leaving the UK, that would be an action deserving of expulsion ,as its a decision she was entitled to make. Perhaps the UK Border police should be prosecuted for allowing a minor to leave the country four years ago. ?
When Christ was reported as saying " suffer little childen" ,it was not a command ,and it was instead , "suffer little children to come into me". ..a slight difference in context.
we are talking about those who went to Syria and joined ISIS or lived in ISIS controlled territory .
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/shamima-begum-isis-syria-uk-british-suspects-europe-a8779856.html
But she is a UK citizen. Not an Irish citizen. I have not checked, but I don't believe she was born in NI.
.. Your attitude and lack of analytical ability says all .
War is war.
I was working on the story yesterday I am aware of everything you know and more about this situation.
I don't want tax payers money spent on her. Maybe ITN will pay for the family to go out there again. Then all back to their council funded house to eat food paid for by us and preach hate towards us. I don't want her back in my country.
If she dies she dies as the great Drago once said.
there is also the thorny issue of the much bigger picture: the west's relationship with the middle east. creating dictators like hussein, even creating and supporting the taliban in afghanistan when it suits us, to oppose russian invasion - then suddenly a volte face when political expediency dictate otherwise, and the taliban become the terrorists. the west have qa loty to answer for in sowing and maintaining the divisions in the middle east. and syria. our picking of sides and labelling of terrorists is every bit as self serving as that of, say, russia, as it starves civilians to death for being "terrorists" in damascus. i dont think we should get too comfortable on our self creqted moral high ground.
your post says it all. clearly you have no experience of war.
She still supports Islamic State and believes she did nothing wrong. At 15 years she was old enough to know exactly what she was doing. At that age and even younger many of her cultural origins have chosen to migrate thousands of miles alone to Europe as either refugees or economic migrants, showing considerable abilities.
In these circumstances I see no reason for accepting her back.
And as I carefully explained previously, there is no wide acceptance that the Stockholm Syndrome even exists beyond possibly a one to one relationship. By any definition it could not possibly exist between an individual in the UK and a large fighting group in a middle Eastern country in such a way as to get them to up sticks and go there.
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lets consider this, for a moment, on an individual, interpersonal basis - free from political reference. Alexander Blackman executes a wounded unarmed taliban and is pardoned and released from prison after three years in 2017. that was - in any court of justice - premeditated murder. and being pardoned highly questionable. I'm sure what she did (though i dont know teh facts) was wrong (she was at the very least complicit in murder). But she did not as far as i know shoot a wounded british soldier in cold blood. Why can she not be subjected to teh same process of justice here in the UK than Alexander Blackman was?
the reason i assert that fingers have no experience of war is because it gives one a vivid sense of the degree to which we are all - admittedly to a degree and not totally - victims of circumstance, of political manipulation - disposable "assets". we are all to varying degrees manipulated. there's nothing like the immediate experience of contact during a skirmish to bring this realization home.
that's a valid point. but isis is a banned organisation for a reason (or many reasons) and she explicitly supported it. I can see that explicitly supporting an organisation that endorses the beheading of innocent civilians is illegal and in my view becoming complicit in murder
did she join the ranks of ISIS fighters though? as for explicitly supported it, did she make any propaganda video?
that is why i believe you raise a valid point. and why she should be judged in a British court of law. that considers the facts. and not be prejudged on the say-so of extremely expedient politicians (would any of us, really, want someone like Boris or May to decide our fate??? i thought not)
Blackmans case isn't relevant in any way. As you've said, his treatment by us was to say the least questionable and therefore no reliable basis on which to decide this new issue.
Begum chose her path at a sufficient age to do so and doesn't wish to change her position on that. She simply wants to take advantage of our medical services, which is unnecessary since babies are being born all the time where she is and she is in the care of a refugee camp.
She has said she knows that she may have the baby taken from her if she returns, clearly happy to be sentenced and be a sort of martyr in prison. I don't see why she should have that personal advantage at our cost. She made her choice, let her live with it.
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That's not relevant though. It cannot be argued that she did not know the nature of IS and their appalling ways before going to join them. Clearly she put religious belief in the promotion of Islam by murder and worse before any scant trace of humanity.
That makes her totally unacceptable in any Western culture.
We have to start standing up against the violent expansion of extreme Islam more forcefully. They show no mercy, compassion or trace of weakness, nor should we.
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I don't think there will be a meeting of minds in this. A Child can gave the capacity to act but not the capability to appreciate the consequences of that action. Had a group of 15 year old girls been groomed by a paedophile ring , or drawn unto a cult I do not doubt that your compassion would have been raised. I see this as fundamentally the same.
Once in a mileau, It becomes even more difficult to assert independence. The number of sociological studies of cult behaviour demonstrate that. No I see her and similar as victims. Were she removed from that situation ,it is highly probable that she would revert to type.. A standard young woman who has undergone trauma.
Now there is no further point in me developing this, as I suspect views are entrenched.
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Do you think that ISIS considered them to be innocent civilians?
she chose to support an illegal organisation. legally, i am not at all sure that that justifies stripping her of her citizenship. morally, historically i know the west have a lot to do with the creation of isis. we grew the Taliban, we, repeatedly, destabilized the middle east. Washing our hands of her is also washing our hands of our role in creating the mess in syria. But this is complex and unfortunately i'm working and without free time so i will have to leave it to all of you sentient souls to arrive at the truth of this complex matter