Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
42,585
18,339
Who should get the vote in your opinion then Flecc?

Toilet salesman and above?
As I posted, none of the wider population since it was parliament's job to make such decisions.

We don't govern by referenda in a parliamentary democracy. Such an immensely complex matter as leaving EU membership should have been subject to a viability study first and the conclusions examined by the House before any final decision on leaving and issuing article 50.

I've long said that leaving with anything like a satisfactory outcome for either us or the EU is impossible after nearly half a century of integration. I posted as such almost two years ago and then again almost a year ago, explaining why the negotiations were going so badly

Here's the link to that post

We are in agreement that we were never going to be able to leave properly, but differ on the reasons for that.
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: jonathan.agnew

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
2,322
830
41
As I posted, none of the wider population since it was parliament's job to make such decisions.

We don't govern by referenda in a parliamentary democracy. Such an immensely complex matter as leaving EU membership should have been subject to a viability study first and the conclusions examined by the House before any final decision on leaving and issuing article 50.

I've long said that leaving with anything like a satisfactory outcome for either us or the EU is impossible after nearly half a century of integration. I posted as such almost two years ago and then again almost a year ago, explaining why the negotiations were going so badly

Here's the link to that post

We are in agreement that we were never going to be able to leave properly, but differ on the reasons for that.
.

Flecc. You are not a lawyer.

This isn’t a courtroom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tommie and Zlatan

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
4,277
746
As I posted, none of the wider population since it was parliament's job to make such decisions.

We don't govern by referenda in a parliamentary democracy. Such an immensely complex matter as leaving EU membership should have been subject to a viability study first and the conclusions examined by the House before any final decision on leaving and issuing article 50.

I've long said that leaving with anything like a satisfactory outcome for either us or the EU is impossible after nearly half a century of integration. I posted as such almost two years ago and then again almost a year ago, explaining why the negotiations were going so badly

Here's the link to that post

We are in agreement that we were never going to be able to leave properly, but differ on the reasons for that.
.
You think our MPs, such as Corbyn, Abbot, Farage etc etc are more capable of making decisions than the 17.4 million who voted to leave.
Thats democracy as long as your vote agrees with mine, in other words not democracy at all.
You remainers just dont get it. Many many folk just dont want to be ruled from Brussels by folk they have zero attachment to, they dont want to be part of your grand plan of Federal. States of Europe, actually a bloody great experiment. No matter how democratic you see it, no matter how grand and right you see the EU as, 17.4 million see it otherwise. I dont like what EU stands for, I dont like the group leading it, and I dont like many of the things it has and hasnt achieved. I dont like its poor showing on many many issues, all mentioned somewhere on here and what I dislike most is being told I, m wrong in disliking EU by such as you.
No matter what valid economic reasons you put forward I will never be a supporter of the EU dream. Thanks but no thanks. Its a club I, and 17.399 million others, dont want to be in.
The more such as you, OG, JA snd others tell us how stupid, and worse we are for wanting out the more I, m convinced we should leave.
Remainers have used every possible insult available to criticise leavers, kicked snd screamed, called out democracy and gone on and on and on but never really understood the salient point. Folk dont like the EU and many of its leaders. You will then try and blame DM and propoganda for that but refuse to accept you arr equally influenced by bile from otherside,as pointed out a few days ago.
Just stpp it Flecc, accept others have equally informed and valid reasons for leaving as you have for remaining.
You want to remain, fine, you are entitled to hold any opinion you wish, and I am not criticising anyone for holding that opinion. But likewise leavers are equally entitled to theirs, and it turned out on the day of referendum more felt like I do than you. We should leave. Fact.
 
Last edited:

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
Its another verb OG doesnt quite understand, but it suits his agenda to accuse leavers of something "nasty".
It was and you don't like being called out when you do something that is nasty do you?So why did you do it?
Only a moron would stoop to changing someone elses posts
Normal people don't resort to such low tricks thinking they are being clever., and only fools approve of them doing so.
 
Last edited:

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
From Sky News, a Message from Dear Leader.
This is your leader Speaking " I'm right behind you in the chase car!"

https://news.sky.com/story/nigel-farage-will-not-complete-brexit-betrayal-march-despite-urging-supporters-to-join-him-11666858"
Nigel Farage will not complete Brexit Betrayal March despite urging supporters to join him

The former UKIP leader says the event was to show "the political class" that voters will not put up with a delayed Brexit.


"
Nigel Farage says he will not be completing the more than 200 mile Brexit Betrayal March from North East England to Westminster despite asking supporters to join him.

Launching the event last month the former UKIP leader tweeted: "We're marching from Sunderland to London... get your walking boots on!", but now admits he will walk only "some of it."

"He gave Sky News a guarantee he would walk every mile of the route despite admitting he had done no training. "

I look forward to seeing this Toad get briefly wet
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wicky

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
You think our MPs, such as Corbyn, Abbot, Farage etc etc are more capable of making decisions than the 17.4 million who voted to leave.
Thats democracy as long as your vote agrees with mine, in other words not democracy at all.
You remainers just dont get it. Many many folk just dont want to be ruled from Brussels by folk they have zero attachment to, they dont want to be part of your grand plan of Federal. States of Europe, actually a bloody great experiment. No matter how democratic you see it, no matter how grand and right you see the EU as, 17.4 million see it otherwise. I dont like what EU stands for, I dont like the group leading it, and I dont like many of the things it has and hasnt achieved. I dont like its poor showing on many many issues, all mentioned somewhere on here and what I dislike most is being told I, m wrong in disliking EU by such as you.
No matter what valid economic reasons you put forward I will never be a supporter of the EU dream. Thanks but no thanks. Its a club I, and 17.399 million others, dont want to be in.
The more such as you, OG, JA snd others tell us how stupid, and worse we are for wanting out the more I, m convinced we should leave.
Remainers have used every possible insult available to criticise leavers, kicked snd screamed, called out democracy and gone on and on and on but never really understood the salient point. Folk dont like the EU and many of its leaders. You will then try and blame DM and propoganda for that but refuse to accept you arr equally influenced by bile from otherside,as pointed out a few days ago.
Just stpp it Flecc, accept others have equally informed and valid reasons for leaving as you have for remaining.
You want to remain, fine, you are entitled to hold any opinion you wish, and I am not criticising anyone for holding that opinion. But likewise leavers are equally entitled to theirs, and it turned out on the day of referendum more felt like I do than you. We should leave. Fact.
You wrote this
"The more such as you, OG, JA snd others tell us how stupid, and worse we are for wanting out the more I, m convinced we should leave. "

Is that todays version of reality? it tends to vary as a t times you change your mind
We haven't been telling you you are stupid, Your posts have simply proved that you are, by not having the slightest idea of how the EU works or how poor our own so called leadership is even when it has made such a balls up of leaving the EU.
You know the referendum was rigged and void, yet still keep banging on leave won it.
Frankly it didn't the result was a draw at best.
And by now with disaster facing the country you stick to you opinion having learned nothing along the way.
Who is going to make your Brexit work when it comes?
Come on Mr "I'm so clever" Who you " gonna" call?

The ERG who would sell their own Grandmothers?
TM who would use starve the poor and the elderly and employ Group 4 to do the job
The poor man's Che Guevara when he's busy planting Marrows
Vince Cable AKA Michael Crawford?
Renta Thug AKA the DUP?

Do you seriously want to risk the fate of the country solely to this group of political Squatters, whose main priority is to fill their pockets and put the money overseas where it is free of tax?
Time for you to stop your fetish against the EU and see the mess you and the rest of the leavers have landed the country in
How could you have been gullible enough to trust the people you did?
We leavers saw this coming, so should you have done, and now you want to blame us for your mistakes.
Shove that where the sun doesn't shine.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: jonathan.agnew

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
And in the Express
"
BREXIT BREAKTHROUGH: May rebels to BACK DOWN and ‘hold their noses while voting FOR deal’
THERESA May was given new hope of securing her Brexit deal last night after fresh signs that Tory Eurosceptic and Democratic Unionist Party MPs are ready drop their opposition following fears the EU departure is under threat.


This too
Soft Brexit incoming: European traders bet on May’s deal PASSING at third attempt
EUROPEAN markets believe this week’s votes in the British Parliament lowered the chances of the UK leaving the European Union without a deal and are now trading on the expectation of a “softer” Brexit, analysts said.
By Alice Scarsi


Remember my prediction?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
Who should get the vote in your opinion then Flecc?

Toilet salesman and above?
Or would you prerer peeping toms who lurk on street corners with propaganda camera crews, and think themselves wiser than everyone else, fingers?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,851
7,876
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
apparently Nigel Farage managed to recruit 350 paying marchers for his Brexit Betrayal March.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Wicky and flecc

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
Its another verb OG doesnt quite understand, but it suits his agenda to accuse leavers of something "nasty".
You are not being "accused" you actually did alter my post, so you are guilty as charged and can't deny it can you?

One verb I do understand is Dishonest and that describes your behaviour when you change other people's posts.

Amazing you have the sheer "Brass" to act as if you did something both honest and clever.
And imagine you can diminish what you did and bluff your way out.
Foolish to lower yourself, and now there's another simpleton who lacks morals.
You should both be ashamed of behaving as you did

The problem is neither of you can take the idea you have done something wrong, can you?
What does that make you?
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
14,773
21,006
75
Zlatan posted something that deserves looking at in a post to flecc
"accept others have equally informed and valid reasons for leaving as you have for remaining. "
Apart from public enemies who will make a financial killing out of Brexit, can anyone point out who these people might be and what their "informed and valid reasons" were?

None of the leave voters had the remotest idea about what was going to happen, or you have to ask how many would have voted for leave had they done so.

They were mugged and still are being, and Brino is approaching fast.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
2,731
4,492
West West Wales
Who should get the vote in your opinion then Flecc?

Toilet salesman and above?
Pointing out a proportion of the electorate that is, for whatever reason, not fitted to vote does not mean that we can identify them in a rational and morally justifiable way and then exclude them from voting.

Let's face it, the reason could be as transient as having had a beer or two more than is sensible through to being permanent serious health issues.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,851
7,876
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
You think our MPs, such as Corbyn, Abbot, Farage etc etc are more capable of making decisions than the 17.4 million who voted to leave.
Thats democracy as long as your vote agrees with mine, in other words not democracy at all.
they do different jobs.
The electorate advises their MPs of their preferred choice but it is not capable of negotiating, changing laws etc.
If the MPs find brexit too difficult to implement, then you can expect that brexit is delayed or people asked to vote again.
BTW, I agree with JC's strategy: he does not support a second referendum until after brexit is agreed.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
1,473
1,008
We are in agreement that we were never going to be able to leave properly, but differ on the reasons for that.
is it because our politicians have conned the country into the EU (when they only voted for a trading arrangement) and have allowed foreign powers to take over control of our country. I look on them as a type of cancer that is very difficult to cut out, but if it is not done it will gradually finish you off
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
10,851
7,876
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
is it because our politicians have conned the country into the EU (when they only voted for a trading arrangement) and have allowed foreign powers to take over control of our country.
you should therefore support a new vote where WTO brexit is one of the possible choices.
 

Advertisers