Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

There is no doubt that Tory voters who have gone to Farage will come back when Boris is leader. This is where he has a clear edge over the likes of Hunt or Stewart.

Farage is the main challenger right now - he is the one who has to be dealt with.

except this time, BJ is no match for NF.
Farage is battle hardened, BJ ducked when he found out in 2016 that the PM job's to deliver brexit was a nightmare. Since, h's done nothing to show he's improved.
If BJ becomes PM, Farage is going to hollow out the conservative party.

 

[oldgroaner]

You really are a twat.

Don't make a Fingers of yourself! show some self respect.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Again - all your questions are of the form 'when did you stop beating your wife?'

Yup. Voting leave is right up there with wifebeating in the considered behaviour stakes.

 

[oldgroaner]

except this time, BJ is no match for NF.
Farage is battle hardened, BJ ducked when he found out in 2016 that the PM job's to deliver brexit was a nightmare. Since, h's done nothing to show he's improved.
If BJ becomes PM, Farage is going to hollow out the conservative party.

As I pointed out earlier Farage will have Boris for Breakfast

 

[Fingers]

Thought so. Hurtling headlong into an unknown situation without any idea what you want or expect. The very definition of absolute stupidity. Congratulations on achieving the status of the biggest idiot on Pedelecs.

Oi!

That's my title! I worked hard for that!

Don't go giving away my stuff so easily.

 

[Fingers]

Yup. Voting leave is right up there with wifebeating in the considered behaviour stakes.

A fool and a liar.

At least you are balanced.

 

[Fingers]

Eoin Morgan is on fire in the cricket.

 

[oldgroaner]

Oi!

That's my title! I worked hard for that!

Don't go giving away my stuff so easily.

Quite right! you have worked jolly hard to get where you are today, and set a benchmark example to us all

 

[Danidl]

You're a good sport. I'll save you the trouble. For me it was mainly about keeping democracy close to the people. I like the Swiss way - lots of votes about local issues. The Eu has gotten out of control. I do not want to be part of some Eu super-state. I want local politicians accountable to as local a population as possible.

You know.. many others here share those sentiments, . However the current way the UK has arranged its electoral system with its First Past the Post system, First Son inherits everything, Winner takes all mentality, has worked directly against that.
If you operated as a modern democracy,with multiple seat constituencies, Single Transferrable Vote then you would have representative government. Each MP would be looking over their shoulder, not at the competition in another party, but whether their own party colleague was more popular and in touch with the constituency

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Oi!

That's my title! I worked hard for that!

Don't go giving away my stuff so easily.

No, youre a moron. Idiots, like fools, are at least entertaining.

 

[Fingers]

But here you are supporting a party line that takes us out of the so called control of the EU and into the control on the USA as clearly outlined in their requirement for a trade deal.
They will determine the rules that previously we could affect while members of the EU, and they won't allow that sort of freedom that we had.
You can't have it both ways
And what are we as the United Kingdom but a super-state? are you advocating we go back to individual separate countries again?
That's the only way to achieve your goal of "local politicians accountable to as local a population as possible."

More lies and nonsense.

What has been outlined in the USA trade deal?

Please do show us. This will be a scoop and also illegal. You can show this to the EU and we will be fined.

Chop chop. Set you to your task.

Unless of course it's your usual nonsense and lies?

Lol. Why am I framing that as a question.

Everything you post is nonsense or a lie.

 

[OxygenJames]

But here you are supporting a party line that takes us out of the so called control of the EU and into the control on the USA as clearly outlined in their requirement for a trade deal.
They will determine the rules that previously we could affect while members of the EU, and they won't allow that sort of freedom that we had.
You can't have it both ways
And what are we as the United Kingdom but a super-state? are you advocating we go back to individual separate countries again?
That's the only way to achieve your goal of "local politicians accountable to as local a population as possible."

We'll see. Right now the details of any deal with the US are far from agreed. As for splitting up the UK - well yes any idea taken to its logical conclusion often results in madness. The Eu was too big. The Uk feels about right - though my guess is the Scots may well vote to leave if we give them another chance.

 

[Fingers]

No, youre a moron. Idiots, like fools, are at least entertaining.

A wins a win.

Thanks. I guess.

 

[flecc]

The Eu was too big. The Uk feels about right - though my guess is the Scots may well vote to leave if we give them another chance.

Two things I can agree with there. I was strongly opposed to the expansion of the EU into the Warsaw pact countries. I'd rather have seen them form their own politico-economic group which would have been a valuable buffer between Russia and the EU.

And yes, I think you are right that Scotland will take its chances on independence if given a second opportunity. Brexit has poisoned this part of the union.
.

 

[Danidl]

We'll see. Right now the details of any deal with the US are far from agreed. As for splitting up the UK - well yes any idea taken to its logical conclusion often results in madness. The Eu was too big. The Uk feels about right - though my guess is the Scots may well vote to leave if we give them another chance.

The Scots will want to leave because of Brexit..that is very clear. The big question is whether Brexit is more important than Great Britain? What would happen if Scotland declared UDI?. Would we have Saracen armoured cars in Glasgow?. The UK only drops by 1.5 million with the loss of NI, but by a full 10%, with a loss of Scotland, but loses 3/4 of its land and sea area.
Do you care if Scotland is to be another Ukraine?.
Fanciful notions perhaps, but all within the bounds of possibilities

 

[jonathan.agnew]

The Scots will want to leave because of Brexit..that is very clear. The big question is whether Brexit is more important than Great Britain? What would happen if Scotland declared UDI?. Would we have Saracen armoured cars in Glasgow?. The UK only drops by 1.5 million with the loss of NI, but by a full 10%, with a loss of Scotland, but loses 3/4 of its land and sea area.
Do you care if Scotland is to be another Ukraine?.
Fanciful notions perhaps, but all within the bounds of possibilities

You say that as if the 48% who voted remain will quietly abide with a hard brexit and its fallout. I think not, i suspect much more than 10% of those of working age in england will leave.

 

[flecc]

Do you care if Scotland is to be another Ukraine?

Sort of Rangers v Celtic?

I don't see it, I think pride in Scotland will overcome any differences on the retention of Great Britain, which will cease to exist anyway if Scotland leaves.

There'll just be Britain and the UK.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

More lies and nonsense.

What has been outlined in the USA trade deal?

Please do show us. This will be a scoop and also illegal. You can show this to the EU and we will be fined.

Chop chop. Set you to your task.

Unless of course it's your usual nonsense and lies?

Lol. Why am I framing that as a question.

Everything you post is nonsense or a lie.

Apparently early dementia is setting in with you, I covered this fully Nov 18 2018

Now clever boy ,turn your mouth off and your brain on, and get an adult to read the trade deal Pdf.
This is what you voted for and here it is
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/ideal-us-uk-free-trade-agreement-executive-summary-update.pdf

Here is where I posted it

Nov 18, 2018


This is what a vote for Brexit really meant
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs
A radical blueprint for a free trade deal between the UK and the US that would see the NHS opened to foreign competition, a bonfire of consumer and environmental regulations and freedom of movement between the two countries for workers, is to be launched by prominent Brexiters.

The blueprint will be seen as significant because of the close links between the organisations behind it and the UK secretary for international trade, Liam Fox, and the US president, Donald Trump.

Its publication follows a week of policy launches by the European Research Group of Conservative MPs designed to pressurise the prime minister into “chucking Chequers”, her softer Brexit proposal, in favour of a harder, clean break from the European Union.

In other words a bonfire of the NHS and workers rights, and far from cancelling free movement, restricting it to free movement with the USA.
So much for the joke "We knew what we were voting for"
I can just imagine before long UKIP changing sides, wanting freedom from American Domination and claiming
"Trump will want to solve his problem with illegal aliens by foisting them on us"

You really are living in a world of your own aren't you?
How have you managed to forget this happened?
Now clever boy, tell me that this is what you voted for?
Is it really? are you that Stupid?
And for goodness sake as you are so fond of saying ready the thing fully and try to understand what it means
By the way I made firther posts regarding the fact that the trade deal is designed to protect Israel from criticism too and cited the relevant paragraphs. I'll post that when I trace it

 

[Danidl]

You say that as if the 48% who voted remain will quietly abide with a hard brexit and its fallout. I think not, i suspect much more than 10% of those of working age in england will leave.

Sorry my use of the word Leave was ambiguous.. By leave I meant in the context of sundering their connection with England. Scotland voted strongly to remain in the EU. The strongest reason for the Scots rejecting their independence referendum was the argument presented by London that they would be dumped from the EU,were they to leave the UK.

 

[Fingers]

Apparently early dementia is setting in with you, I covered this fully Nov 18 2018

Now clever boy ,turn your mouth off and your brain on, and get an adult to read the trade deal Pdf.
This is what you voted for and here it is
https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/ideal-us-uk-free-trade-agreement-executive-summary-update.pdf

Here is where I posted it

Nov 18, 2018


This is what a vote for Brexit really meant
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/rightwing-thinktanks-unveil-radical-plan-for-us-uk-brexit-trade-deal-nhs
A radical blueprint for a free trade deal between the UK and the US that would see the NHS opened to foreign competition, a bonfire of consumer and environmental regulations and freedom of movement between the two countries for workers, is to be launched by prominent Brexiters.

The blueprint will be seen as significant because of the close links between the organisations behind it and the UK secretary for international trade, Liam Fox, and the US president, Donald Trump.

Its publication follows a week of policy launches by the European Research Group of Conservative MPs designed to pressurise the prime minister into “chucking Chequers”, her softer Brexit proposal, in favour of a harder, clean break from the European Union.

In other words a bonfire of the NHS and workers rights, and far from cancelling free movement, restricting it to free movement with the USA.
So much for the joke "We knew what we were voting for"
I can just imagine before long UKIP changing sides, wanting freedom from American Domination and claiming
"Trump will want to solve his problem with illegal aliens by foisting them on us"

You really are living in a world of your own aren't you?
How have you managed to forget this happened?
Now clever boy, tell me that this is what you voted for?
Is it really? are you that Stupid?
And for goodness sake as you are so fond of saying ready the thing fully and try to understand what it means

Try and post facts not nonsense.

You said that the guidelines had been agreed. What guidelines?

More nonsense and lies from you.

November last year as well. Too cute.

Maybe your readership of a million remembers your words of 8 months ago. I can't remember what you posted yesterday.

Stick to facts.

 

[oldgroaner]

Try and post facts not nonsense.

You said that the guidelines had been agreed. What guidelines?

More nonsense and lies from you.

November last year as well. Too cute.

Maybe your readership of a million remembers your words of 8 months ago. I can't remember what you posted yesterday.

Stick to facts.

You are wasting my time, just go away and come back when you grow up
What is the point of trying to debate with you?
You have no intention, to do so, just want to act the fool.
And you clearly either didn't read it or more likely it was too complicated for you to understand.