Brexit, for once some facts.

derf

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I voted purely to regain control over our right to govern ourselves, something you have conveniently omitted from your post.
I've deliberately omitted it because its sincerely not how it works. I wont rehash all the stuff on this thread about EU versus Westminster representation. much better to wait and see what happens over the next few months. I hope I'm wrong, but I think well all see opting out of an interdependent world was never an option as hedge funds annihilate the economy.
the part that's beginning to drive me nuts is the level of denial. uk voters are not so much leaping like lemmings of a cliff, their running into mid air chattering away inanely at each other.
 

BrendanJ

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the many levels of irony in this post was just too hard too ignore: here we are, a small xenophobic little island of self-evidently inbred intellectually impaired (to put it very mildly) voters who have completely rogered themselves economically (probably for the next fifty years) because they blamed a few immigrants for their own un-industrious, unenlightened self interest and laziness. Yes, even without brexit, the UK would have had problems with its fat, unproductive, benefit cheating, entitled day time tv watching, thick native population. Brexit was really just the icing on the cake, the logical conclusion to that.
I am truly shocked at these kind of messages, which seem to be just vitriol and bitterness against the whole of the UK, or at least the 52% which you pigeon hole as a certain kind of low life. I think you would be truly surprised by the make up of both sides of the argument and your invective says more about you than the people you seek to trash.
Its been a very interesting process so far and in achieving a turnout of 70% plus from usually 40% plus then clearly someone let the crazy's out
You can get back in your box now, its over, get over it
 

derf

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I am truly shocked at these kind of messages, which seem to be just vitriol and bitterness against the whole of the UK, or at least the 52% which you pigeon hole as a certain kind of low life. I think you would be truly surprised by the make up of both sides of the argument and your invective says more about you than the people you seek to trash.
Its been a very interesting process so far and in achieving a turnout of 70% plus from usually 40% plus then clearly someone let the crazy's out
You can get back in your box now, its over, get over it
no, its not over, it's just started (the fact that you think its over says much about you), by the way you and other brexitters will be doing the "getting over it" for quite some time. Really, my post was euphemistic.
 

BrendanJ

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no, its not over, it's just started (the fact that you think its over says much about you), by the way you and other brexitters will be doing the "getting over it" for quite some time. Really, my post was euphemistic.
I wish you wouldn't use such big words, I had to look it up.
Im only a brexiter after all. The vote is done, the decision taken and the process begun. The fact that Cameron has sabotaged the current government will slow things up with a pregnant pause while they get their ducks in a row again, but now we need to look forward, face the challenges, see the opportunities, both in abundance
The main thing we have now is a measure of control going forward, not 100% but thats both life and business, but at least we dont have to worry about the EU superstate on the way. In fact as I expected I think Brexit has sunk that particular aspiration. Watch this space Junker will be the next one to resign
 

derf

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Aug 4, 2014
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I wish you wouldn't use such big words, I had to look it up.
Im only a brexiter after all. The vote is done, the decision taken and the process begun. The fact that Cameron has sabotaged the current government will slow things up with a pregnant pause while they get their ducks in a row again, but now we need to look forward, face the challenges, see the opportunities, both in abundance
The main thing we have now is a measure of control going forward, not 100% but thats both life and business, but at least we dont have to worry about the EU superstate on the way. In fact as I expected I think Brexit has sunk that particular aspiration. Watch this space Junker will be the next one to resign
I've often wondered what it must be like to be a lemming. I'll get back to you about that in a few weeks when reality has, finally, dawned on you.
 

BrendanJ

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No, If I where you Id stick with labour. The qualifications are lower and getting lower by the day

Their Shadow cabinet must now be on its 3rd iteration at least, I suppose you would call that a Shadow of the Shadow cabinet, some of the latest lot can hardly string two words together. BUT dont worry they have the full backing of the unions and generally left wing fringe groups, not so sure about the working classes any more so not a chance in Hell that they will get elected in the near future.
Perhaps thats why you guys protest about UK democracy so much, you cant get elected so perpetual protest is all you can do.
You could allways look back to good old days when we were more like France!!! :)
 

oldgroaner

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I wish you wouldn't use such big words, I had to look it up.
Im only a brexiter after all. The vote is done, the decision taken and the process begun. The fact that Cameron has sabotaged the current government will slow things up with a pregnant pause while they get their ducks in a row again, but now we need to look forward, face the challenges, see the opportunities, both in abundance
The main thing we have now is a measure of control going forward, not 100% but thats both life and business, but at least we dont have to worry about the EU superstate on the way. In fact as I expected I think Brexit has sunk that particular aspiration. Watch this space Junker will be the next one to resign
Opportunities? Great, care to list them?[emoji1]
We were asked if we wanted to remain, we voted no, we will be leaving if the Government do the honourable thing and accept the wishes of the people.

EU laws will now only be acknowledged or accepted if the UK think they are in the interest of the UK - big difference.
As whatsisname said sadly on good morning britain.
I can't believe it , beaten by a team from a country with less population than Croydon! o_O

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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derf

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No, If I where you Id stick with labour. The qualifications are lower and getting lower by the day

Their Shadow cabinet must now be on its 3rd iteration at least, I suppose you would call that a Shadow of the Shadow cabinet, some of the latest lot can hardly string two words together. BUT dont worry they have the full backing of the unions and generally left wing fringe groups, not so sure about the working classes any more so not a chance in Hell that they will get elected in the near future.
Perhaps thats why you guys protest about UK democracy so much, you cant get elected so perpetual protest is all you can do.
You could allways look back to good old days when we were more like France!!! :)
priceless, and you think what's happening is about party politics.
 
Mar 9, 2016
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What gets me about this is such as OG short memories. The eu has shown itself utterly useless in every conflict since its inception.( lets face it the French even helped Argentina out, supplying Exocet pre embargo , but then a team of experts/technicians to launch them AFTER the embargo.) The eu has within it 5 virtually bankrupt states which on one hand they bail out, but on other enforce monetary restraints that cant work. The eu is a failing, toothless organisation with no care or power to really help any member states.
Country realised this and stayers moan on about reruns of referendums, show complete disregard for our democracy to remain affiliated to what?
And why ? Because they can't cope with change and have zero confidence in our country. I do think stayers are looking and sounding rather pathetic .
Had we voted to stay, would have been it. No claims for replays, no shouts of not fair,.
For goodness sake shut up and get on with it.
 
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trex

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The vote is done, the decision taken and the process begun.
If you mean the everyone has taken noticed of the result, yes, I agree.
If you mean we are moving out of the EU, the process has not yet begun.
The next step is to see who will want to be the next PM.
They will have to spell out which option they propose we should go for.
It seems that the tories will go for May. The model would be Norway (remain) or Lichtenstein (leave).
This time, the economic impact will be assessed by civil servants, not Johnson and Gove.
I suspect when the model is selected, parliament will be asked to debate on it, a vote will follow then the PM will give the signal to leave. Then the process has begun.
Until parliament debates the options, there is always a chance that we are not leaving.
 

BrendanJ

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priceless, and you think what's happening is about party politics.
Actually no I dont, but on this thread there seems to be some stereotypes that have emerged.
The referendum was nothing to do with party politics and the division was clearly evident in all parties.
The Tory party as a whole was for IN, but argued to complete distractiion on the economic arguements, no surprises there then, but the electorates disbelieved there over stated cases and voted against
The Labour party strangely harped on about the benefits fort working people and appeared more comfortable in Europe which is rather left leaning still. But dramatically demonstrated there out of touch with there own supporters, the working classes who I believe yet again were voting against the labour party as much as the goverment line.
So you are right its not about party politics but the story is non the less revealing and the politicians finally have to wake up to it, ie Get over the result and get on with delivering it
 

derf

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Aug 4, 2014
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What gets me about this is such as OG short memories. The eu has shown itself utterly useless in every conflict since its inception.( lets face it the French even helped Argentina out, supplying Exocet pre embargo , but then a team of experts/technicians to launch them AFTER the embargo.) The eu has within it 5 virtually bankrupt states which on one hand they bail out, but on other enforce monetary restraints that cant work. The eu is a failing, toothless organisation with no care or power to really help any member states.
Country realised this and stayers moan on about reruns of referendums, show complete disregard for our democracy to remain affiliated to what?
And why ? Because they can't cope with change and have zero confidence in our country. I do think stayers are looking and sounding rather pathetic .
Had we voted to stay, would have been it. No claims for replays, no shouts of not fair,.
For goodness sake shut up and get on with it.
I imagine there must be situations in which "shut up and get on with it" is an appropriate response. Trying to manage the fallout from the biggest act of economic vandalism any member of the G7 has ever inflicted on itself isn't one of them.
 

BrendanJ

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May 6, 2016
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If you mean the everyone has taken noticed of the result, yes, I agree.
If you mean we are moving out of the EU, the process has not yet begun.
The next step is to see who will want to be the next PM.
They will have to spell out which option they propose we should go for.
It seems that the tories will go for May. The model would be Norway (remain) or Lichtenstein (leave).
This time, the economic impact will be assessed by civil servants, not Johnson and Gove.
I suspect when the model is selected, parliament will be asked to debate on it, a vote will follow then the PM will give the signal to leave. Then the process has begun.
Until parliament debates the options, there is always a chance that we are not leaving.
Of course you are right and that is as it should be.
What we dont need is another referendum, and the goverment better make sure to follow the will of the people
Frankly I dont think a Norway style agreement is good enough, in fact it smells to me rather defeatist. I have no fear trading under WTO rules, but of course that is just as damaging to Europe as UK, so it wont finally be needed.
The other clear win here is whether we finally stay in in some form or not, the EU superstate ship is holed under the water line.
Which is my main ideal. So a Union of soverign nations with EU only able to rule on things that it absolutely must, and give up this image / dream of an EU state and the trappings of Statehood
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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What gets me about this is such as OG short memories. The eu has shown itself utterly useless in every conflict since its inception.( lets face it the French even helped Argentina out, supplying Exocet pre embargo , but then a team of experts/technicians to launch them AFTER the embargo.) The eu has within it 5 virtually bankrupt states which on one hand they bail out, but on other enforce monetary restraints that cant work. The eu is a failing, toothless organisation with no care or power to really help any member states.
Country realised this and stayers moan on about reruns of referendums, show complete disregard for our democracy to remain affiliated to what?
And why ? Because they can't cope with change and have zero confidence in our country. I do think stayers are looking and sounding rather pathetic .
Had we voted to stay, would have been it. No claims for replays, no shouts of not fair,.
For goodness sake shut up and get on with it.
OG in fact has far longer memories than you as a matter of fact, having been a baby born to a Mother who had been bombed out twice while carrying me.
The EU has proven of immense value in PREVENTING what would have been a repeat of the second world war, and your utter lack of understanding of it's nature shows when you make stupid remarks about it's record in conflicts.
What a contradiction Brexiteers are, on the one hand the EU is too powerful, yet you complain it couldn't stop France supplying Exocets pre Embargo.
let me remind you, this country has engaged in Private wars on a grand scale, hasn't it? and that blows the Brexit argument that it is too powerful and we lose sovereignty totally out of the water.
By the way the Referendum has no legal authority whatever, has it?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-loophole-eu-referendum-mps-law-legal-legislation-constitution-a7105181.html
Since you have a problem looking things up , here is an extract
"
"Democracy in Britain doesn't mean majority rule. It's not the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the mob ... it's the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, who vote for them."

Mr Robertson said there had been "a lot of stupid statements" suggesting Britain could simply send a note to the EU to trigger "Article 50" of the Lisbon Treaty, which lays out the process under which states can leave. The article itself says a state can only leave in accordance with "its own constitutional requirements".


READ MORE
Liberal Democrats win over 5,000 new members with anti-Brexit pledge

"Our most fundamental constitutional requirement is that the decision must be taken by parliament. It will require a bill," he said.

"In November, the situation may have totally changed. According to polls, a million vote leavers appear to have changed their mind, that could be five million by the November."

In a letter to The Times, another leading QC, Charles Flint, of Blackstone Chambers, also stressed that British law required MPs to vote before Brexit could happen.

"Under the European Union Act 2011 ... a change to the treaty on European Union, agreed between member states, would have required approval both by referendum and by act of parliament,"
"Democracy in Britain doesn't mean majority rule. It's not the tyranny of the majority or the tyranny of the mob ... it's the representatives of the people, not the people themselves, who vote for them."

Mr Robertson said there had been "a lot of stupid statements" suggesting Britain could simply send a note to the EU to trigger "Article 50" of the Lisbon Treaty, which lays out the process under which states can leave. The article itself says a state can only leave in accordance with "its own constitutional requirements".
 
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