I know that Flecc recommends chemically conditioning a new lithium battery by giving it two full discharges and charges. Does the same apply to a NiMh battery?
Not really John, no harm was done by that one initial recharge. As with NiMh, the running down to empty is done in the early stages to condition the cell content in order to reach full capacity, and all you did was delay that process by the first charge. That discharge to empty also resets the calibration of the integral battery meter, and the readout you got from the ex manufacture charge would have been unreliable anyway. It may have been quite low in charge.My Agattu's battery was 60% charged when I collected the bike.
In hindsight, to get the best out of the battery, I should have run it flat first instead of fully charging it before using it as recommended in the owner manual. This needs to be clarified by the suppliers and stated in the owner manual
John
Yes Hal, to cut out at end of charge is ideal, but not absolutely vital. Very low will do, and the process can be spread a little anyway, as it's just a cell conditioning to reach full capacity. You couldn't do it any harm by small variations, just slightly delay peak attainment.And with the Torq li-ion do you mean completely flat until it cuts out and it keeps cutting it out or do you expect the lights to stay on red.
I ran my Torq for 30+ miles for the first deep (full) discharge. ALL the lights (Red, Yellow and Green) went out.Yes Hal, to cut out at end of charge is ideal, but not absolutely vital. Very low will do, and the process can be spread a little anyway, as it's just a cell conditioning to reach full capacity. You couldn't do it any harm by small variations, just slightly delay peak attainment.
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I am 46, just over 70kg and 5'8 tall. I would consider myself fit to very fit and judging by how hot I get while cycling I would say I put a lot of effort in. I wouldn't consider my route very hilly - certainly I don't encounter a hill that the Torq would have any trouble with. But as one who has had terrible trouble with Li-ions I wouldn't say the problems can be confined to the unfit.The riders who've suffered the most trouble with Li-ions on the Torq are generally those who cannot give full fitness assistance to it, mainly by reason of age or on occasion through medical conditions.
The fitter the rider, the younger they are, the lighter they are, and the more average the conditions, all these help to avoid any possible trouble.
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To your first question, yes I thought the same but on a Torq it never worked out and so I went back to riding it restricted. With your bike it is easier as you have the assistance factor knob thingy. The best way to extend range it to ride at a speed just above the bikes top speed, so 16-17mph if it is restricted. That way it is you making most of the contribution not the motor. This is difficult unrestriced (well I cannot manage to cruise at 25 mph!).Thanks for the advice, please can you clear up one point? If I stayed under 15.5 mph, and gave the same assistance over the same journey in the same weather conditions, wouldn't the battery charge loss be identical on my bike in restricted mode as in derestricted mode?
Also, it seems that I should buy another battery and swop them 1/2 way, and then charge both to full battery strength. Is this the ideal way to extend the battery life?
Conal
I find with the derestricted Torq that with careful throttle use I can get quite close to restricted range when I ride 'as if' restricted i.e. limiting speed to ~15mph etc.Conal said:If I stayed under 15.5 mph, and gave the same assistance over the same journey in the same weather conditions, wouldn't the battery charge loss be identical on my bike in restricted mode as in derestricted mode?
Conal, thank you for the report on the battery performance that you are getting on the Forza, which is fitted with the EAF facility. It is very useful to hear the relative distances at the different EAF settings, and it will be very interesting to learn to what extent the life of the Li-ion is extended by softening the all out performance demands of a derestricted bike.Thanks for the advice, please can you clear up one point? If I stayed under 15.5 mph, and gave the same assistance over the same journey in the same weather conditions, wouldn't the battery charge loss be identical on my bike in restricted mode as in derestricted mode?
Also, it seems that I should buy another battery and swop them 1/2 way, and then charge both to full battery strength. Is this the ideal way to extend the battery life?
Conal
In my comments on those areas, I didn't say the problems were confined to the unfit, only that they suffered more, adding that those least affected generally have the least trouble.I am 46, just over 70kg and 5'8 tall. I would consider myself fit to very fit and judging by how hot I get while cycling I would say I put a lot of effort in. I wouldn't consider my route very hilly - certainly I don't encounter a hill that the Torq would have any trouble with. But as one who has had terrible trouble with Li-ions I wouldn't say the problems can be confined to the unfit.
It is pretty difficult to make these measurements without a clever meter like the brain drain or cycle analyst http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain.shtml . It measures the amount of charge the motor uses and is hand made and thus expensive.My only problem is how to measure the discharge. I have a very fancy meter; can any tell me how to measure the charge left at the end of each journey?
Once I can measure the charge I start and finish with I will take notes over the next few weeks and report back
Conal
Yes, I think adverse road conditions and winds will use more...Conal said:I find that wet roads use more charge (greater resistance?) and I assume that wind makes a difference (the weather sort that is!) but have not measured this.
Sorry Conal, I expressed it wrong - I didn't mean to say reduce throttle/assist, and there's no need to do so, but rather resist any urge to increase throttle to maintain speed on a gradient, but instead keep throttle more or less the same i.e. let your speed drop a little & increase pedal input a little - which of course is easy with EAF - you don't need to do anything, just leave it as it is . Hills and starts seem to be the two biggest drains on the battery other than outright speed & strong headwids, so any reduction of high drain in those areas should boost range noticeably, and that would seem to be a part of how the EAF achieves greater range: similar range can only be achieved with carefully economic throttle control on non-EAF bikes and both methods require greater rider input to achieve longer range, but the EAF seems very easy & useful since it requires no adjustment while riding .Conal said:I am very interested to see the difference using low power to set off from lights etc... will make; and, by reducing the assist when going up hills (when I need it the most!), what my saving on power output is.