Converting a Whyte 603 Hardtail

[jnm72]

Newbie here, so go slow and gentle please.
I've currently got a Whyte 603 Hardtail MTB that I'd like to convert, 73mm bottom bracket running on 27.5" wheels



I'm a big lad, approx 120kg and currently tend to ride a mixture of tow paths and other flatish trails. I'd like some help to get up some of the steeper climbs around here(Stroud, UK) and enjoy some longer rides.

Where do I start, it's all so confusing!
Front hub, rear hub, or mid drive? Budget upto £700ish
Integrated lights would be good, walk assist essential.
Torque and range more important than speed. Remember this is to get me up hills and on longer rides, not a speeding ticket!

I'm relatively hands on with bike maintenance and will try most jobs, although pulling the crank and changing the bottom bracket would be a new challenge for me.

Fire away with suggestions please!

 

[Oldie]

Just did a similar conversion - pretty easy really. Bafang 250W kit (mid drive).

Have a look on Woosh Bikes website or pswpower as they both offer easy solutions but you might check first that you are able to remove the bottom bracket, or have someone who will do it for you.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I'm 6'3" and 100kg and used to pedalling and enjoy adding a fair amount of pedalling effort

I have 2 electric bike conversions.

1) A BBS02B mid drive motor on a Boardman 29er Hardtail with a 48V 20Ah Samsung celled battery

BBS02B is not a UK legal motor (nominally rated at 750W) but there is the slightly smaller and less powerful (and lighter) BBS01B (nominally rated at 250W ) that potentially can be legal (as long as the controller is set to 25km/h max assist speed)

I bought a USB cable to reprogram the assist levels so that level 1 is 10% of the power, level 2 is 20%-> level9 is 100%. It did have assist level speed limits set (e.g. level 1 was 10km/h, level 2 was 15km/h, etc which I really hated and removed) - This is independent of the overall max assist speed level.

I also replaced the rear cassette with a steel, heavier duty version and replaced the chain with a heavier duty ebike chain

I find this amazing, particularly you can make the most of the power because it is going through the gears so whatever the incline and whatever the speed you get the same level of power assist from the motor. I've used this on the road, on muddy tracks, on quite rocky paths and it has been superb.

Maybe for really heavy duty mountain biking the motor is a bit exposed and may get knocked, but not for anything I'm likely to be doing

Because the motor power is going through the gear system potentially this will wear the chain / gears but I try to ride with a degree of mechanical sympathy and use the gears correctly (as I would if only I was pedalling) - we shall see - no problems so far

2) The other bike is a step through bike that I recently converted to a rear hub drive with a 36V 20Ah rear rack battery https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/woosh-xf08c-cassette-with-rear-rack-battery.45406/

Again, I love it (although it is not nearly as powerful - but there are other legal rear hub kits that are more powerful). I did try going up a really steep hill near me (21%) and got up it with a fair amount of pedalling effort - but I actually wanted a electric bike that I could still put in a reasonable amount of pedalling effort. One characteristic of this conversion and where it differs to the boardman is that as you approach the maximum speed that the motor can do for that level, the power from the motor starts to drop off. That does have the advantage that if you ease off a little on the pedalling, and the speed drops a little, you actually get more assistance from the motor.

So far I use both bikes about the same - the rear hub bike does have panniers so I can use it for shopping.

Range wise - The rear hub bike - Did around 43 miles, half that distance at the maximum assist level (level5) and half at level4 over undulating ground and it left just over 1/3 battery (measured using a voltmeter) , so probably 65-70 miles range.
The mid drive - I tend to run at level 2-3 (20-30%) of power , increasing it for very steep hills - I suspect with the big battery range is about 90-100 miles

If you really pushed me I would say I enjoy riding the mid drive Boardman more but the rear hub is more practical

 

[saneagle]

Newbie here, so go slow and gentle please.
I've currently got a Whyte 603 Hardtail MTB that I'd like to convert, 73mm bottom bracket running on 27.5" wheels

View attachment 52161

I'm a big lad, approx 120kg and currently tend to ride a mixture of tow paths and other flatish trails. I'd like some help to get up some of the steeper climbs around here(Stroud, UK) and enjoy some longer rides.

Where do I start, it's all so confusing!
Front hub, rear hub, or mid drive? Budget upto £700ish
Integrated lights would be good, walk assist essential.
Torque and range more important than speed. Remember this is to get me up hills and on longer rides, not a speeding ticket!

I'm relatively hands on with bike maintenance and will try most jobs, although pulling the crank and changing the bottom bracket would be a new challenge for me.

Fire away with suggestions please!

The answer is very simple using a process of elimination.

A front hub on that bike would compromise the steering and the front suspension. There's a fair chance that it would break the drop-outs, and would not be able to grip going up steep trails, so we can safely and comprehensively cross that one off.

A rear hub motor is exceptionally good for normal road use, like commuting, shopping, touring and things like that, where it beats a mid motor by quite a lot; however, when it comes to heavy guys riding up steep up-hill trails, the normal ones are going to be lacking. You can get suitable motors, but you have to hunt out the right kit. If 90% of your riding was on the road and the rest only occasional or dreaming of a bit of off-road stuff, then a rear hub-motor would still be in the running, but not if your riding is mainly off-road.

That leaves the mid motor, which is extremely suitable for the varied terrain and speeds you do when riding off-road. It has some draw-backs when riding on the road, but they're not deal-breakers. The main drawback being that you have to be in the right gear all the time, which gives a less relaxing ride than a hub-motor, and the other important one is that they're not as bullet-proof as hub-motors, but then a hub-motor is not so bullet-proof if you're using it for serious off-road stuff.

The question is how much off-road riding do you really want to do? If it's just a dream, I'd go with the hub-motor, but if it's a reality, then it's the mid-drive for the win. Light trails are the same as roads as far as the choice is concerned.

Installation is about the same in terms of the issues that you have to solve. Hub-motors are generally cheaper.

Whichever you choose, you should go for 48v because it's more powerful for climbing with heavy riders. I think Woosh have whatever you need whichever choice you make.

 

[jnm72]

The answer is very simple using a process of elimination.

A front hub on that bike would compromise the steering and the front suspension. There's a fair chance that it would break the drop-outs, and would not be able to grip going up steep trails, so we can safely and comprehensively cross that one off.

A rear hub motor is exceptionally good for normal road use, like commuting, shopping, touring and things like that, where it beats a mid motor by quite a lot; however, when it comes to heavy guys riding up steep up-hill trails, the normal ones are going to be lacking. You can get suitable motors, but you have to hunt out the right kit. If 90% of your riding was on the road and the rest only occasional or dreaming of a bit of off-road stuff, then a rear hub-motor would still be in the running, but not if your riding is mainly off-road.

That leaves the mid motor, which is extremely suitable for the varied terrain and speeds you do when riding off-road. It has some draw-backs when riding on the road, but they're not deal-breakers. The main drawback being that you have to be in the right gear all the time, which gives a less relaxing ride than a hub-motor, and the other important one is that they're not as bullet-proof as hub-motors, but then a hub-motor is not so bullet-proof if you're using it for serious off-road stuff.

The question is how much off-road riding do you really want to do? If it's just a dream, I'd go with the hub-motor, but if it's a reality, then it's the mid-drive for the win. Light trails are the same as roads as far as the choice is concerned.

Installation is about the same in terms of the issues that you have to solve. Hub-motors are generally cheaper.

Whichever you choose, you should go for 48v because it's more powerful for climbing with heavy riders. I think Woosh have whatever you need whichever choice you make.

Thanks, that's really helpful observations. I'm not really an off road trail guy, when I talked about steep hills, I meant road ones or cycleways. Most of my stuff will be roads, canal or river tow paths

 

[jnm72]

I'm 6'3" and 100kg and used to pedalling and enjoy adding a fair amount of pedalling effort

I have 2 electric bike conversions.

1) A BBS02B mid drive motor on a Boardman 29er Hardtail with a 48V 20Ah Samsung celled battery

BBS02B is not a UK legal motor (nominally rated at 750W) but there is the slightly smaller and less powerful (and lighter) BBS01B (nominally rated at 250W ) that potentially can be legal (as long as the controller is set to 25km/h max assist speed)

I bought a USB cable to reprogram the assist levels so that level 1 is 10% of the power, level 2 is 20%-> level9 is 100%. It did have assist level speed limits set (e.g. level 1 was 10km/h, level 2 was 15km/h, etc which I really hated and removed) - This is independent of the overall max assist speed level.

I also replaced the rear cassette with a steel, heavier duty version and replaced the chain with a heavier duty ebike chain

I find this amazing, particularly you can make the most of the power because it is going through the gears so whatever the incline and whatever the speed you get the same level of power assist from the motor. I've used this on the road, on muddy tracks, on quite rocky paths and it has been superb.

Maybe for really heavy duty mountain biking the motor is a bit exposed and may get knocked, but not for anything I'm likely to be doing

Because the motor power is going through the gear system potentially this will wear the chain / gears but I try to ride with a degree of mechanical sympathy and use the gears correctly (as I would if only I was pedalling) - we shall see - no problems so far

2) The other bike is a step through bike that I recently converted to a rear hub drive with a 36V 20Ah rear rack battery https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/woosh-xf08c-cassette-with-rear-rack-battery.45406/

Again, I love it (although it is not nearly as powerful - but there are other legal rear hub kits that are more powerful). I did try going up a really steep hill near me (21%) and got up it with a fair amount of pedalling effort - but I actually wanted a electric bike that I could still put in a reasonable amount of pedalling effort. One characteristic of this conversion and where it differs to the boardman is that as you approach the maximum speed that the motor can do for that level, the power from the motor starts to drop off. That does have the advantage that if you ease off a little on the pedalling, and the speed drops a little, you actually get more assistance from the motor.

So far I use both bikes about the same - the rear hub bike does have panniers so I can use it for shopping.

Range wise - The rear hub bike - Did around 43 miles, half that distance at the maximum assist level (level5) and half at level4 over undulating ground and it left just over 1/3 battery (measured using a voltmeter) , so probably 65-70 miles range.
The mid drive - I tend to run at level 2-3 (20-30%) of power , increasing it for very steep hills - I suspect with the big battery range is about 90-100 miles

If you really pushed me I would say I enjoy riding the mid drive Boardman more but the rear hub is more practical

That's really good advice. I was thinking of going mid-drive, but your description of the rear hub is making me reconsider!

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Assuming your rear gears are 9 speed cassette then depending on your budget

Woosh Bikes - Online Shop

Online shopping for electric bikes and conversion kits. All models are in stock unless otherwise indicated on the web page and can be despatched on the same day or next business day. We will email you the tracking link as soon as the item has been despatched.

wooshbikes.co.uk

36V250W 27.5"/28" Rear E-Bike Conversion Kit for Cassette with 36V13Ah

1.Technical Data and Packing list PACKING LIST (EBK36250R275KB+13HL1) Item Description Quantity Remarks 1 27.5"/28" Wheel with Rear Motor 1 36V250W Rear Motor, Installation Width=138mm, Diameter=134mm.Gearshift: Fit for Cassette Freewheel(8S/9S/10S)12G black spokes with double wall 27.5"/28"...

www.yosepower.co.uk

Wouldn't rule out the mid drive !

Woosh Bikes - Online Shop

Online shopping for electric bikes and conversion kits. All models are in stock unless otherwise indicated on the web page and can be despatched on the same day or next business day. We will email you the tracking link as soon as the item has been despatched.

wooshbikes.co.uk

Worth talking to Woosh - they were very helpful and knowledgeable

 

[StuartsProjects]

Thanks, that's really helpful observations. I'm not really an off road trail guy, when I talked about steep hills, I meant road ones or cycleways. Most of my stuff will be roads, canal or river tow paths

Thats the same type of riding I do, was going out tonight too, but its too hot.

I have a rear hub converted hardtail;



And its just fine for the stuff I do. On real steep (road) hills I just drop down the gears, its 3 x 9 speed, and I do get up hills albiet not quickly.

With a rear hub conversion kit be sure to match the gears, some rear hub kits come with a freewheel rear cog and the gear indexing might not match whats on your bike.

 

[saneagle]

The Whyte has cassette gears, so OP needs a cassette motor. Woosh's DWG22C 48V rear hub Kit should be perfectly adequate. You can get better parts from some Chinese resellers, but it'll end up more expensive. My bike has mix and match Chinese parts, and I've never found anything better in the 9 years since I built it. It's my ebiking Nirvana. I do a lot of riding on the road and quite a few trails. Since I built it, it's become my main mode of transport. I do more miles on it than I do with either my car or motorbike.