Courts applying laws incorrectly against e-bike owners?

[flecc]

So to break this down, in a nutshell... are road-legal e-bikes bicycles, or mechanically propelled vehicles in law? Perhaps it's not so simple, and they can fall into both categories, depending on the courts assessment and the offences/laws being applied?

To be a mechanically propelled vehicle requires it to be subject to type approval to be on the roads, and this is where I think that barrister may not have taken into account all law on the subject.

The far newer type approval legislation, i.e. EU regulation 2002/EU/24 which was passed into UK law on 10th November 2003, positively exempts e-bikes conforming to the pedelec law from type approval. Therefore, as the DfT's Vehicle Inspectorate would confirm, they are not classed as motor vehicles, and by deduction, are not intended by parliament to be regarded as mechanically propelled. More accurately, they are mechanically assisted in pedelec law and not capable of independent propulsion.

To accept different implies that parliament has passed two laws in direct opposition.

In fact BEBA is currently engaged at a very high level in getting this whole area cleared up, pending the new regulations that are planned. As David Miall has confirmed in another post, I have been extensively involved in that process. I'm sure we will soon have clarity and David will be posting on the matter for members as soon as a resolution is reached.
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[Morgann]

He says that the quote and RTA references above are based on his interpretation of how e-bikes meet the definition of mechanically propelled vehicles in law, rather than bicycles. And he says this view is most likely to be the one courts will apply based on RTA 1988.

But he goes on to say he can't say with certainty that courts will always apply that definition or that it's even the right definition, because he says courts haven't addressed or agreed on this specific question yet.

He closes by saying that on the basis that courts do hold to this view that e-bikes are mechanically propelled vehicles then under ss4 and 7 RTA the police have the powers to require a specimen at a hospital or police station if think believe you're intoxicated while in charge of an e-bike.

Surely if E-Bikes have been declared to be Bicycles then any evaluation of whether they can reasonably be said to be mechanically propelled vehicles is moot bar a change in the law or regulations. They would be exceptions to the rule and not bound by it.

 

[morphix]

To be a mechanically propelled vehicle requires it to be subject to type approval to be on the roads, and this is where I think that barrister may not have taken into account all law on the subject.

Funnily enough I was reading about type approval last night after seeing a UK eBay seller offering compact combustion engines to fit bicycles, marketed as a faster alternative to e-bikes on eBay. I got to wondering what's involved and the cost of type approval, as his listing (no doubt some will know the one I mean) looks like some quite dubious marketing.

I got hold of the MSVA guide (PDF) which explains the ins and outs and fees for getting type-approval for using a vehicle on roads.

So am I right in thinking that if an e-bike fell outside of EU regulation 2002/EU/24, then you could get type approval in the 2 wheel low power (moped) category? Then you'd have to have license plates, tax, insurance and sit the CBT?

But from what I can make out by the tests and checks they do, it wouldn't be so simple as just presenting your bike. You'd have to get it stamped with a vehicle ID number, it would have to be adapted with indicator lights, brake and proper headlight, you'd need place for number plates, plus there's all the braking and safety side.. Each time you fail the test on one thing you have to pay for a re-test. Looks like it could get terribly expensive!

 

[flecc]

So am I right in thinking that if an e-bike fell outside of EU regulation 2002/EU/24, then you could get type approval in the 2 wheel low power (moped) category? Then you'd have to have license plates, tax, insurance and sit the CBT?

But from what I can make out by the tests and checks they do, it wouldn't be so simple as just presenting your bike. You'd have to get it stamped with a vehicle ID number, it would have to be adapted with indicator lights, brake and proper headlight, you'd need place for number plates, plus there's all the braking and safety side.. Each time you fail the test on one thing you have to pay for a re-test. Looks like it could get terribly expensive!

Yes, that's absolutely correct. It is possible though, scooter number plate and brake light/indicator assembly, plus brakes ok should pass. I doubt if the requirements for passing the 15 mph limited Low Powered Moped test would be as stringent as many others.

 

[Morgann]

Proper motorbike helmet too. No bike lanes. Parking cost and tickets. Sod that.

On the other hand.

Tax, Pennies, probably zero cos zero emissions.
Insurance, not much more than now
Cycle lanes overrated and tend to cause their own safety problems
Parking, a removable numberplate and tax disc and it's a pushbike again.
Helmet. I have faith that the industry will come up with something nice and light and it will keep my ears warm which is a problem atm.
Keep up with traffic
Really fast off the line so no wobbling.
No more riding in the gutter/over the grids/broken glass etc.
Around 25/30 mph on the level.

Hmm...

 

[neptune]

I dont know if it still applies , but at one time you could get a daytime only MOT for motorcycle , So no "proper headlamp " necessary .

 

[Morgann]

I dont know if it still applies , but at one time you could get a daytime only MOT for motorcycle , So no "proper headlamp " necessary .

not really sure what constitutes a 'proper' headlight anyway. Most midrange rechargeables are capable of blinding rabbits and heating up painted surfaces at close range. Apparently all the squirrels on my street rub their little eyes and complain of "pink spots"!!! after I go by.

Just saying'.

 

[flecc]

Keep up with traffic
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Around 25/30 mph on the level.

Snag is the EU wide low powered moped class is limited to the same 15 mph as e-bikes.

 

[morphix]

Snag is the EU wide low powered moped class is limited to the same 15 mph as e-bikes.

So the next class up for 2 wheeler takes it into normal moped class..max speed up to 45kmh/27mph.. £85 for the test, as opposed to £55 for the low powered moped.

Here is the MSVA Guide from Vehicle & Operator Services Agency if anyone wants to check it out.

 

[morphix]

Here's all the checks then you would need to satisfy for an e-bike capable of above 15mph to be licensed:

- Speedometer check
- Audible warning (horn?)
- Tyres
- General vehicle construction
- Noise and silencers(?)
- Handholds
- Stand
- External projections for un-bodied vehicles(?)
- Rear view mirrors
- Lighting and signalling
- Registration plate space
- Masses and dimensions
- Brakes
- Anti-tampering measures

Heh. But on the plus side, you wouldn't need European type-approved components cuz you would have a Minister's Approval Certificate (MAC) if you passed the MSVA test for type approval.

If I was gonna do this, I'd do a quadricycle !

 

[flecc]

So the next class up for 2 wheeler takes it into normal moped class..max speed up to 45kmh/27mph.. £85 for the test, as opposed to £55 for the low powered moped.

Here is the MSVA Guide from Vehicle & Operator Services Agency if anyone wants to check it out.

Yes, that's correct Paul, enabling up to 30 mph being recognised as UK law. The DfT says that there's a 10% tolerance on speed limits which will take care of the technical difference anyway.

Here's a link to my forum article on this subject, Single Vehicle Type Approval
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[Morgann]

- Speedometer check. Need to fit
- Audible warning (horn?). Got one
- Tyres . Got two
- General vehicle construction . Got some
- Noise and silencers(?) . Got very little
- Handholds . Got two
- Stand . Got one
- External projections for un-bodied vehicles(?) Not Got
- Rear view mirrors . Got one
- Lighting and signalling. Got lighting. err.. do hands count?
- Registration plate space . Not got
- Masses and dimensions. Got some
- Brakes. Got two
- Anti-tampering measures Not got a clue. D Lock?.

Not much of a to do list. a reg plate a speedo and some indicators.

Come to think of it, there's a light set on the market that gives you indicators front and rear and a brake light. So it's just somewhere to hang the reg plate and fit a speedo. Does a gps speedo count? Questions but, doable.

 

[flecc]

Does a gps speedo count?

I would think not, since it's historic rather than instant measurement.

 

[morphix]

- Anti-tampering measures Not got a clue. D Lock?.

I think looking at the guide this check refers to restrictors for mopeds/motorbike, less than 125cc and power not exceeding 11kW it says...so doesn't apply to e-bikes...unless they check the speed can't go above 27-30mph? (I thought mopeds had to be restricted to 50cc but it makes no mention of that).

 

[flecc]

(I thought mopeds had to be restricted to 50cc but it makes no mention of that).

I think that is a rider age measure, 16 year olds only allowed on a restricted 50 cc moped until the 17th birthday, so covered by a different law, usually an RTA.