Does bicycle weight really matter?

C

Cyclezee

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As regards James trying to sell a few, what do you expect him to do?

Try to sell a woosh or a Kudos?

I've never understood why some people on here - and in the country generally - seem to think a businessman trying to promote his business is somehow improper or ungentlemanly.
Totally agree with you Rob, what I find ungentlemanly is when trade members openly bicker with each other, it's just not Britisho_O
 
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EddiePJ

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Unsurprisingly I'd never heard of Coboc, but the first link to come up using a Google search, was actually for this Scott. http://www.rutlandcycling.com/320989/products/2015-scott-e-sub-speed-electric-bike-green.aspx?origin={adtype}&kwd={keyword}&currency=GBP

I'd have that any day of the week over the Coboc. Low weight is all well an good, but it isn't going to be of any use when the bike falls apart due to possible weakness in strength, after six months of British pot holed roads.

The Scott whilst heavier, probably has better geometry, (something only mentioned once here) could actually be used away from flat area's, will be far more durable and usable, and being blunt is a far superior bike, at half the cost. The name Scott could be swapped for countless other brands, but it just happened to come up first, so used as an example. Weight saving is something that we all want, but I'd sooner know that durability and range has been factored in.

We keep reading wild claims about the spec of bikes, it could be time to put these claims to the test by sending out bikes to forum users to test for a few months. Rather than a full review, a standard tick box could be used for forum feed back, plus a high/low points written piece at the end.
In respect of road bikes, the test should be carried out on hilly, not on flat terrain, and in respect of off road bikes, not on hard packed gravel tracks. James, you can be the first to come forward and offer both types of bikes.
 
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anotherkiwi

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We keep reading wild claims about the spec of bikes, it be time to put these claims to the test by sending out bikes for forum users to test for a few months. Not on flat terrain either.
I'm ready :)
 
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trex

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May 15, 2011
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100€ for me on that link trex.



Supernova lights 300€, integrated rack and mudguards lets say we choose wingees 130 € a Keyde lightweight kit $790 on a decent road bike like the one I saw in Irun 970€

Lightweight isn't cheap. Closer to 2000€ than 1000€ I think
The $106 price includes the controller and LCD.
I am currently converting a Giant Defy 5 and looking for a seller of this 2.4kg CST motor:
http://www.szbaf.com/en/components/component/motor/rm-g01250dv.html
 

Kenny

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Jun 13, 2007
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Hi Trex, What's the catch with the motor you linked to. It's almost 2kg lighter than the Bafang CST- HT Oxydrive use in their top conversion kit.

Is it simply not robust enough for heavier riders?
I'm sure it would be fine with my 70kg and provide a terrific weight saving.
 

trex

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May 15, 2011
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it has 11:1 reduction ratio in the gearbox instead of 1:4.5 in the SWXes. That means it will keep high efficiency in low revs. Torque is 30NM, not great but good enough for me (75kgs + 15kgs bike, aiming for average 20mph) because I want to keep my legs as long as possible. Bafang because Bafang motors are usually better built than other Chinese brands, well worth the extra few $.
 
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Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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James hasn't told us how much is the Coboc in the UK,but my guess is about £3k based upon the euro 4200.
I must admit that my business price point,across all of my businesses is providing a good quality product at a mid range price,that seems to align with most UK customers wishes.
The U.K. customer seems,in the majority,to not want to spend much more than £1000,I suspect that on this forum in number terms most of the customers are Woosh,Juicy or Kudos customers,all of which have bikes which meet that price point.
Don't misunderstand I appreciate there are customers who are prepared to spend £2k on a Kalkhoff or KTM,but they are not the majority of sales.
But up at £3k you have to have something very special and accept a very limited market place.
Has anybody ridden a Woosh Karoo? Aside from Trex,hehe.
KudosDave
 

EddiePJ

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James hasn't told us how much is the Coboc in the UK,but my guess is about £3k based upon the euro 4200.
I must admit that my business price point,across all of my businesses is providing a good quality product at a mid range price,that seems to align with most UK customers wishes.
The U.K. customer seems,in the majority,to not want to spend much more than £1000,I suspect that on this forum in number terms most of the customers are Woosh,Juicy or Kudos customers,all of which have bikes which meet that price point.
Don't misunderstand I appreciate there are customers who are prepared to spend £2k on a Kalkhoff or KTM,but they are not the majority of sales.
But up at £3k you have to have something very special and accept a very limited market place.
Has anybody ridden a Woosh Karoo? Aside from Trex,hehe.
KudosDave
I did write a lengthy but light hearted piece a few days ago about my own perceived opinions of the type of bike, age and cost etc for the average UK pedelec user, 1st and 2nd buyer. Annoyingly I deleted it as I wanted to edit it and expand it further. I'll try and re do it in a separated thread over the next few days. :)
You are on target though. ;)

As for the Coboc and it's claimed range and single speed transmission. Every Wednesday evening throughout the year, a local cycle shop runs a hill climbing time trial up this hill that is just a couple of miles away from me. I'd happily take a Cobac along and let club riders use it, to firstly see if it would even make it up the climb, and secondly to see if it would overheat before the battery gives up.

 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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James hasn't told us how much is the Coboc in the UK,but my guess is about £3k based upon the euro 4200.
As for the Coboc and it's claimed range and single speed transmission. Every Wednesday evening throughout the year, a local cycle shop runs a hill climbing time trial up this hill that is just a couple of miles away from me. I'd happily take a Cobac along and let club riders use it, to firstly see if it would even make it up the climb, and secondly to see if it would overheat before the battery gives up.
The Coboc isn't part of the usual e-bike market and I wouldn't expect it to be priced to compete with the mainstream. It sits more comfortably in a separate specialised market that's currently occupied by Cytronex and the like. These bikes are primarily enthusiast rider's road machines, but having an electric support system that's only intended to give small degrees of intermittent help. They are not in any way like mainstream e-bikes.
.
 
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Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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Hi Trex, What's the catch with the motor you linked to. It's almost 2kg lighter than the Bafang CST- HT Oxydrive use in their top conversion kit.

Is it simply not robust enough for heavier riders?
I'm sure it would be fine with my 70kg and provide a terrific weight saving.
This motor has a much smaller diameter so it has very small gearing to achieve some low speed torque..however, it doesn't have the torque spread of a BPM. Specifying bikes is a compromise,selecting this motor is to achieve lighter weight at the expense of load carrying and hill climbing ability.
The spec of these bikes is following fashion,the style is city slicker with Paul Smith suit not Yorkshire Dales. However I do find it strange,single speed,I would have put a top quality derailleur with Di2 electronic change.
KudosDave
 

Woosh

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...
Has anybody ridden a Woosh Karoo? Aside from Trex,hehe.
KudosDave
Morning Dave,

Karoo sales are slow at the moment, but all the customers who bought it are very happy. I expect demand for this type of products is small because of its position, relatively at the far end of the spectrum, but I am hoping that it will grow if more suppliers are joining in. This is an area where Chinese made products can reasonably compete with Bosch derivatives.
 
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EddiePJ

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One thing is certain, I'm never going to believe that based on an assumed 3K price tag of the Coboc, that it is 4 times the bike that the Karoo is.

Even halving that cost, it isn't twice the bike that the Karoo is.
 

Woosh

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Eddie, I believe that the Karoo is the better bike. Better battery, better motor, better brakes, better geometry. The Karoo can be an effective commuter bike that has a realistic range and can cope easily with moderate hills.
 

Woosh

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if you want to review it, I get one sent to you.
 
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flecc

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One thing is certain, I'm never going to believe that based on an assumed 3K price tag of the Coboc, that it is 4 times the bike that the Karoo is.

Even halving that cost, it isn't twice the bike that the Karoo is.
I don't think that's the point though Eddie, they are not in competition since they are not at all the same thing. As I posted earlier, the Coboc at 13.5 kilos with a small battery and moderate motor is an out and out roadies bike that happens to have some electric support. That enables an already very fit rider to have the simplicity and other single speed benefits while coping with quite a range of terrains by being able to add a moderate touch of power at times. Much of the time a very fit rider would ride it power off, and I could see many a London courier loving it, since many already ride fixies.

The Karoo is much more of an all round e-bike with it's larger battery and full gear range. One doesn't need to be a very fit roadie to ride one, and at 18.5/19 kilos depending on large battery choice, it's far above the usual roadie's bike weight.

Different markets, and the Cytronex bikes with their tiny intermittent use battery have shown for years that such a market exists.
.
 
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EddiePJ

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Referring to the Coboc... That being the case, it just isn't going to sell.

A roadie isn't going to spend 3k on a bike that weighs perhaps 5kg more than their current pedal only road bike, just to get a bit of extra assistance up a few very slight inclines. No one would.

If the roadie was struggling that much, they would just buy a lower ratio chainset or cassette, and be done with it.

Single speed roadies are different breed again, and definitely wouldn't entertain the idea of the bike. Most are anti any form of additional gearing, so there is no way that they would ever have a motor and battery.

The bike is aiming at a non existent market.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Referring to the Coboc... That being the case, it just isn't going to sell.

A roadie isn't going to spend 3k on a bike that weighs perhaps 5kg more than their current pedal only road bike, just to get a bit of extra assistance up a few very slight inclines. No one would.
Well, Cytronex have now been around for about six years with light, low assist and even smaller battery bikes up to that price and dearer. Clearly they've sold, and from some of the early buyers I know that many were actually roadies who wanted that help option.

We had three members who fitted that bill, joining at time of their buy but soon departing when they realised this forum wasn't really the right place for their type of rider.

To illustrate the difference, a few unsuitable prospects who bought a Cytronex as a normal e-bike got around 12 miles range using it that way and soon sold them.

The three roadie type members got at least 20 miles per charge and usually much more, the best trip reported being 43 miles in a very hilly area, not bad for a 4.5 Ah battery. It emphasises that the motor system was only for occasional support to a very fit rider, and in fact that rider changed his motor to a higher geared, higher speed option, further reducing the climb assist ability but increasing climb speed.

You may not see it at present, but there is this different market out there which fits more than one type of possible roadie style rider. Cytronex spotted it years ago and have exploited it ever since. It's a small market of course, but all the £3K and above markets are.
.
 

Yamdude

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Sep 20, 2013
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Its the single speed gearing i dont get on the Coboc, what purpose does that serve ?..... Apart from being crap up hills and spinning out at speed !
Like the Hipsters who buy SS and fixies......I have the impression that people who buy single speed and fixies, do so because they're attracted to a bare bones bike thats as simple as possible. I would have thought that an Ekit added to it is in conflict with that.
 
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EddiePJ

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Flecc, I know all about the Cytronex, and you are either very misguided or have a wicked sense of humour if you are comparing the two.

A Cytronex buyer is going to be installing the kit onto a very high end road bike, and wouldn't even begin to have the slightest of interest in a glorified hybrid.

A kit would sell to a very limited market, but the bike won't sell to anyone at the market that you are claiming it to be aimed at.
 
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