eBike conversion kit help

JohnCade

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 16, 2014
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esigned for a very low end budget bike.
johncade you seem to be trolling the thread.
You do seem to have a way with people don’t you? With an attitude like yours do you really think that members here are likely to put themselves out to help you?

But you don’t really need any help because you know it all already.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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For information Xiongda is sold as 36v and 48v and in affect doubles the number of gears on the rear cassette as said before it is a 2 speed motor. Once you hit a minimum speed of about 12mph intelligently with its specialised controller it automatically changes to a lower gearing internally thus allowing an extra ratio of gears from the bikes gearing.

PS4 you have misread my post as I said that another supplier sells the 250,350 and 750w versions not that you can get 750w for 250/350.
 
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D

Deleted member 4366

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The price from Panda is not bad for the Xiongda kit considering that it's from a UK supplier with some level of support.

IMHO, no hub-motor comes even close to the Xiongda in terms of performance. It's quieter than a BBS01 and most DD motors and has immense torque when you need it, though it can still give smooth gentle assist if that's what you want.

All is not so simple though. The Panda advert is a bit misleading by saying that you don't need to be technically competent to install it. It's wider than a standard hub-motor, so you have to do some jiggery pokery to fit it. If it weren't for that, I'd be telling everybody to get one.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
  • 500w of power as I'm heavy
  • have an LCD display instead of a crappy LED one
You must be incredibly heavy if you already know that you need 500w - perhaps you should consider a legal moped if that's the case?

Many of those who read these pages are heavyweights like me but manage quite happily with 250w so I just wonder if you have actually ridden a decent EAPC.

You seem to believe an LED display is insufficient for your needs but I can't imagine why. So long as the bike provides the required assistance when and where needed, what difference does it make?

There's a lot of help to be found on this site but I rather feel you may be discouraging those with relevant knowledge by your demeanour in this thread.

Tom
 
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ps4customgamer

Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
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For information Xiongda is sold as 36v and 48v and in affect doubles the number of gears on the rear cassette as said before it is a 2 speed motor. Once you hit a minimum speed of about 12mph intelligently with its specialised controller it automatically changes to a lower gearing internally thus allowing an extra ratio of gears from the bikes gearing.

PS4 you have misread my post as I said that another supplier sells the 250,350 and 750w versions not that you can get 750w for 250/350.
That kit simply isnt suitable for my needs and after looking into mid drive kits I've found those to be more suitable as they mean less rotational weight, make servicing my bike a lot easier. The controller is also integrated into the mid drive motor casing so the wiring there is less wiring to manage.

You must be incredibly heavy if you already know that you need 500w - perhaps you should consider a legal moped if that's the case?

Many of those who read these pages are heavyweights like me but manage quite happily with 250w so I just wonder if you have actually ridden a decent EAPC.

You seem to believe an LED display is insufficient for your needs but I can't imagine why. So long as the bike provides the required assistance when and where needed, what difference does it make?
Tom
I've simply read up on 250w motors and when I've tried 250w systems there simply isnt enough pulling power to enhance my ride. As for being heavy I'm in my 20s not fat, 6'5" and 205lbs if you that funny go ahead and laugh.
Using an LED display instead of an LCD simply means I have to add extra electronics just to monitor speed, distance and also its handy to have the time displayed.

There's a lot of help to be found on this site but I rather feel you may be discouraging those with relevant knowledge by your demeanour in this thread.
Tom
I havent called out anyone but johncade who seems to be simply trolling the thread only here to mock not to contribute. So far I've found only trex and nealh to be contributing to the thread rather get upset to hear bad things about Xiongda. Everyone else discussion is good but I still think Xiongda is ratchet.

IMHO, no hub-motor comes even close to the Xiongda in terms of performance. It's quieter than a BBS01 and most DD motors and has immense torque when you need it, though it can still give smooth gentle assist if that's what you want.
d8veh you soud like youve had some experience the Xiongda and though that kit doesnt suit me and my bike it seems to have been okay for you.
Have you had chance to compare the 350w Xiongda to a 36v 500w BBS02? On paper 350w should be inferior to any 500w system when moving at speed.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,669
The 500W BBS02 will trounce the woosh BPM 350W kit and the xiongda XD on the flat and on any hill. The power of the BBS02 500W 36V 25A is on the par with a BPM CST 500W running with a 30A 12 FET controller.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
I've simply read up on 250w motors and when I've tried 250w systems there simply isnt enough pulling power to enhance my ride. As for being heavy I'm in my 20s not fat, 6'5" and 205lbs if you that funny go ahead and laugh.
Ok, so you're not really heavy at all for a grown man,are you?

Not enough power to enhance your ride? What do you expect from an electrically-assisted pedal cycle? If you are in your 20s, looking for speed thrills, there's opportunity for that with lightweight road bikes. Alternatively, there are lots of high-powered motor cycles which I'm certain would enhance your ride to frightening levels, if that's your thing.

Although everyone is entitled to ride EAPCs if of legally-compliant age, I'd be embarrassed to be seen aboard one, were I in my 20s. They are better suited to those of us less able than we once were. 25 kph is the legal limit for EAPC motor assistance in the UK anyway so you need to go illegal if your 'ride enhancement' requires more than that.

I'm curious as to why you described your weight in pounds but perhaps you're American. Most Forum readers here would describe your weight as 14 stone 9 pounds or a shade over 14 and a half stone, a weight many of us used to be but will never be again.

I certainly hope you find something to suit your needs but I feel you owe John Cade an apology. You came and asked for some help or guidance. Everyone who responded to your request made an effort so there was no need to be scornful towards anyone.

Tom
 

selrahc1992

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 10, 2014
559
218
That kit simply isnt suitable for my needs and after looking into mid drive kits I've found those to be more suitable as they mean less rotational weight, make servicing my bike a lot easier. The controller is also integrated into the mid drive motor casing so the wiring there is less wiring to manage.


I've simply read up on 250w motors and when I've tried 250w systems there simply isnt enough pulling power to enhance my ride. As for being heavy I'm in my 20s not fat, 6'5" and 205lbs if you that funny go ahead and laugh.
Using an LED display instead of an LCD simply means I have to add extra electronics just to monitor speed, distance and also its handy to have the time displayed.


I havent called out anyone but johncade who seems to be simply trolling the thread only here to mock not to contribute. So far I've found only trex and nealh to be contributing to the thread rather get upset to hear bad things about Xiongda. Everyone else discussion is good but I still think Xiongda is ratchet.


d8veh you soud like youve had some experience the Xiongda and though that kit doesnt suit me and my bike it seems to have been okay for you.
Have you had chance to compare the 350w Xiongda to a 36v 500w BBS02? On paper 350w should be inferior to any 500w system when moving at speed.
You will have to get out and try kits - reading up on 250w kits may give you the impression it wouldnt enhance your ride but which have you tried? Ive been on various crank drives (kalkhoff, TCM, BBS02) and hub drives (BPM, 500w, 250w - but not xiongda) - unless you live in basecamp everest a geared 250W hub kit in a 26 wheel will be ample.
 
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chain

Pedelecer
Jul 14, 2011
56
4
Notice the 4 tails coming out of that neat controller?
You can't cut the moulded cables coming out of your neat controller.
They are for the motor, battery, the trunk cable and the pedelec sensor.
You need matching moulded cables on your motor, battery, trunk cable and pedelec sensor. and you can't cut any of the moulded cable if they are too long or too short..
You could, theoretically at least, learn to solder. The problem is that the control wires are likely to be very thin.

On my previous motor, QSWXK, I just bundled up the excess cable and put it all in a small handlebar bag; I considered getting the neater German controller and wiring kit but, in the normal German style of excessive legality, it left out the throttle and the pedelec function was limp.

On my present Bafang BBS01 the much neater cable set still is badly planned and has various excesses, which, even though I can solder, I'm not planning to cut out for fear of finding overly fine wires. So I'm just folding the excess wires back on themselves and will cover up the mess with spiral cable tidy painted bike color.

Better to have slightly long cables ex-factory than cables that are too short! In 2002 I bought a Trek Smover (a fully automatic bike with electronic shifting and electronic active suspension, see http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLINGsmover.html ) which had to be reengineered to purpose as its designer made it overly sporting, including short cables. If Trek Benelux hadn't halped me enthusiastically by sending me longer cables, my money would have been down the tubes. Bafang has no history of service at the elevated level of Trek's customer relations, so from Bafang better a long cable than a short one!
 
D

Deleted member 4366

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d8veh you soud like youve had some experience the Xiongda and though that kit doesnt suit me and my bike it seems to have been okay for you.
Have you had chance to compare the 350w Xiongda to a 36v 500w BBS02? On paper 350w should be inferior to any 500w system when moving at speed.
I think you've over-simplified it. There's a lot more to a riding experience than power. If you can't pedal very hard, you need a motor with good torque. Only if you need to sustain a high speed do you need high power. I have to agree with Tom that 14 1/2 stone is not that heavy, so a larger "250w" hub-motor like the Bafang BPM, Ezee or other such motors should be able to get you up very steep hills without to much effort from you.

Hub-motors give a much more relaxed riding experience because you don't have to worry about gears so much. It's nothing to do with being lazy, more that crank-drives are a bit frenetic.

Don't get too hung up on power ratings. 250w, 350w, 500w, etc doesn't mean much because hub-motor winding speed can make a big difference to how powerful it feels and, obviously, how fast it goes.

To answer your question, I have compared those two motors. It's the power that you run them at rather than the power rating that decides how powerful they are and whether they are running in their efficient zone. In theory, the crank-drive should always be more efficient, but my tests have shown that that advantage doesn't get realised in practice, however, having the wrong speed winding on a hub-motor can destroy your efficiency, so you have to choose carefully.

There's a very nice kit from BMSBattery that uses the 48v 09 bottle battery with the included 20A sinewave controller. The wiring is therefore as simple as a BBS01. Add a Q128, BPM or Bafang CST and you'd have a system that I guarantee would satisfy your power and torque requirements, whilst giving you a much more comfortable rode than any crank-drive.
 

ps4customgamer

Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
32
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Ok old I dont ride road bikes as I like high end mountain bikes. I already outpace most people on roadbikes in my area and I dont need to lose weight as I'm not fat.
Not american I weigh myself in pounds as I prefer pounds to kilos. Stones and lbs requires addition when comparing weight so I prefer to work in purely lbs.
Also old you have done nothing but try to mock me and question my need for a 500w system which is simply my requirement.

selrahc1992 I havent had chance to have a proper look at the kalkhoff yet but it looks interesting if I can get it as a kit. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't TCM a rebadged bafang/8fun.

There are a few different kits listed here some better than others lol
https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/

There's a very nice kit from BMSBattery that uses the 48v 09 bottle battery with the included 20A sinewave controller. The wiring is therefore as simple as a BBS01. Add a Q128, BPM or Bafang CST and you'd have a system that I guarantee would satisfy your power and torque requirements, whilst giving you a much more comfortable rode than any crank-drive.
Any links to the particular kit your mentioned on BMSBattery?

  • I'd really prefer a crank drive system so I could keep my nice 9 speed derailleur and cassette.
  • A front drive kit would be okay but I'd really like to keep that motor away from my expensive rockshox
  • I already have some good 36v batteries so I'm trying to find a 36v system rather than 48v system. A 48V system would be a massive pain as Id need to modify one of my existing packs to work at 12V so that could go in series with the 36V packs. If the kit was good enough though it would obviously be worth modifying.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,669
No. It isn't. The TCM is made in Tianjin, Bafang in Souzhou.
The TCM does not have built-in controller like the BBS01/02.

You could, theoretically at least, learn to solder. The problem is that the control wires are likely to be very thin.
I can solder and crimp too. The wires inside those molded cables are usually 22 AWG, the motor cable has 14 AWG teflon coated wires.
 
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ps4customgamer

Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
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I can solder and crimp too. The wires inside those molded cables are usually 22 AWG, the motor cable has 14 AWG teflon coated wires.
lol 22awg seriously?
My 14awg is rated for 200oC so 22awg seems excessive especially since xt60 connectors are made for this size and that connector should handle about 60 amps.
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,669
lol 22awg seriously?
My 14awg is rated for 200oC so 22awg seems excessive especially since xt60 connectors are made for this size and that connector should handle about 60 amps.
I think you've got your AWG crossed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

22 AWG wires have 0.644mm diameter, 0.326mm2 cross section area, usually good for signalling cables, not for power.
14 AWG wires have 1.628mm diameter, 2.08mm2 cross section area, good for up to 350W 36V, 500W 48V motors.
 

jonathan75

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2013
782
207
Hertfordshire
The Panda Xiongda kits are marked up by about £75, where as they seem to be about £200 direct from China but as a business they have to put a bit of profit on top.
I'm afraid that's not correct - the markup is very modest - about £5 more than you'd pay if you'd import and do a wheelbuild yourself, which seems to me a great price for a guarantee and support. Xiongda's kit is £160 + £40 (20% + 6% VAT and duty) + £10 customs handling fee, i.e. £210, whereas Panda do a proper wheelbuild which would cost £40. Oh and a rim which will cost £20. So £270 would be the price for getting something from Xiongda sent to the UK and laced up. Then Panda have to send the whole shebang via UK post, and it's all in for £275.

£5 for a guarantee and support, not bad.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
You'd probably have to rebuild the Panda wheel anyway because the rim off-set will be different for different bikes, gears and brakes. I'd be interested to know what spokes they've used because you need the stretchiness of 14g spoke to deal with the difference in tension between the two sides due to the off-set. That's why I don't recommend this kit for everyone. Installation is a bit more involved than simply bolting the wheel in.

Having sais all that, the results are worth the extra installation effort.
 

ps4customgamer

Pedelecer
Apr 28, 2015
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Been trying to get a better price on the bafang kit today on Aliexpress.

Every supplier I tried was more expensive. One beat that price but only by $5, wanted me to buy a bulk amount lol.

Just been comparing a few kits and realised I hadnt even checked if the bafang LCD is backlit. It turns out the c961 display isnt however the c963 and c965 are. Out of the three the c963 is apparently the smallest, stealthiest and best looking display unit of the 3
https://electricfatbike.wordpress.com/bbs02-displays/
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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961 & 963 are about the same size except the 963 viewable screen is smaller
because it has the control buttons mounted to the left of the LCD where as the 961 has a separate module for the buttons. 961 is backlit I have one and you just long press + for 2or 3 secs for it to come on, its just not auto like the other two.
 

jonathan75

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2013
782
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Hertfordshire
You'd probably have to rebuild the Panda wheel anyway because the rim off-set will be different for different bikes, gears and brakes. I'd be interested to know what spokes they've used because you need the stretchiness of 14g spoke to deal with the difference in tension between the two sides due to the off-set. That's why I don't recommend this kit for everyone. Installation is a bit more involved than simply bolting the wheel in.

Having sais all that, the results are worth the extra installation effort.
In fairness, that 'probably'about needing a wheel rebuild I think overstates the matter by some way. I do indeed hear (like you say) that some motors have odd offsets-from-centre, so that any wheelbuilder may find that they've mis-dished the wheel for the bike. However, firstly you just don't know until you put it on the bike. Secondly one way or another you surely wouldn't pay any more than £275. I don't know what Panda's arrangements would be to ensure this, but fitness for purpose is surely included in the price.

So I think my price breakdown above must still be correct. It seems cracking value, especially for something with proper warranty, UK consumer protection, and hopefully ongoing support.
 
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