First Timer Guide

[Cyclezee]

How many times do new members and indeed long standing members ask the same questions on the same topic or technical issue? Each time the same one or two stalwarts step up and patiently provide the answers repeating what has already been written many times before.

I am sure there are also Guests who are not able ask questions but want to find out something without trawling through masses of posts.

With the massive knowledge base of our members at our disposal, I am sure we could produce an invaluable guide to the world of electric bikes that could be understood by expert and novice alike.

It will be a time consuming, lengthy but worthwhile process for the experts amongst us, it will be an ongoing task that will need to be constantly updated and require the services of an editor or editors who have no commercial interest or bias.

When it is up and running, lots of questions and queries be can dealt with by simply directing the the enquirer to the appropriate section of the guide.

Where better to publish it but here an empty section of the forum Pedelecs Electric Bike Community - First Timer Guide.

Does anyone second this proposal?

 

[eddieo]

I pointed someone who wanted to know about e bikes in genral on my motorhome forum, in this forums direction first, and these two as well, with the proviso to ignore recommendations as probably comercially biased, and come back on here for that....

Electric Bike Sales - FAQs

Electric Bicycle Buyer's Guide

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Eddie,

I am thinking of being able to point people to a location nearer home i.e. this website where anyone can quickly and easily find an answer to a commonly asked question.
As I stated previously, commercially biased answers or contributions from trade members would need to be excluded, e.g. myself.
What I am really thinking of is a form of Wikipedia purely for EPAC (Electrically power assisted cycles).

 

[steveindenmark]

I think this should be also done for a battery guide. Batteries must cover 60% of the technical questions on here. It is the same questions time and time again.

Steve

 

[Scottyf]

Sticky topics to the rescue!

 

[Blew it]

Specific titles

With regard to searching the wealth of information stored within the labyrinth of postings on this forum, I think we should consider the 'titles' we use in threads and replies. The search facility generally looks for the first word of a thread or reply title. Searching would be a lot more successful, if the first word of the title was more specific to the thread subject, likewise with any replies.

A hypothetical example of a thread title that would be invisible to a search engine:

"My dog keeps scratching, has it got fleas?"

To aid searches, it should read:

"Fleas, do they make dogs scratch themselves?"

One more example just to make the point:

"Last week I had three punctures, what should I do?"

Should read as:

"Punctures, any advice?"

Refined searches look at the first two words, so the above title should be:

"Punctures, advice please."

The idea of wiki's on specific subjects is of course a good idea, but entries would need to be constantly either verified or corrected by experts on the subject.

Whenever any of us give advice, we do so with the best 'spirit and intention'. But the chances are, what we post will be a complete load of old cobblers, and I've no doubt I have been guilty of this on occasions.

Cyclezee's proposal is highly desirable, but in the meantime, it would help if we were to 'title' our threads and replies in a format that better suits the 'tunnel-vision' of the search facility.

Sorry for any typos, Black Grouse is a mighty fine night-cap

All the best
Bob

 

[Cyclezee]

Hi Bob,

You make some good points and your suggestion of Specific Titles would work well if people remember to follow your advice, I certainly will try.........if I remember, like most things these days I will need to write it down.

I have just put a sticky as a reminder on my desktop

As you say, verification and correction would be an essential element, but surely that would be easier than constantly repeating posts.

I have sent a message to Russ Scott to see what he thinks of the idea.

Regards,

 

[Blew it]

John, I'm not really into social media, but the use of 'tags' seems to aid searches. To further enhance this function, a list of popular tags are usually shown.

I'm thinking, if a drop-down box of suggested thread titles were displayed in the 'NEW THREAD' window, this may function in a similar way to tags.

 

[JuicyBike]

Perhaps a drop-down list of suggested Search Strings...
Suggested Thread Titles may lead to many repeated thread tittles.

 

[flecc]

With regard to searching the wealth of information stored within the labyrinth of postings on this forum, I think we should consider the 'titles' we use in threads and replies. The search facility generally looks for the first word of a thread or reply title. Searching would be a lot more successful, if the first word of the title was more specific to the thread subject, likewise with any replies.

This is a universal problem. From 1999 when the PC Advisor site started I was one of the main helpers on site through to 2002, and thread titles were always problematic, the one we hated most was "Help!", with no other details in the title. No matter how much we tried, we were never able to achieve much improvement, mainly through inquirers often being new to the site anyway, and unaware of any prior guidance. That's largely true of this site too.

 

[DJH]

Quite agree with a First Timer Guide. I joined in November last year and have gradually accrued a little bit of knowledge but it is a slow process and I would have appreciated some instant information, especially regarding batteries. The battery is a high cost item and concise information about how to treat it without having to trawl through the numerous posts on the subject would be useful. However, who would compose the list of do's and dont's? Would others agree? Sounds like a fleccapedia entry on the horizon!

 

[Cyclezee]

Quite agree with a First Timer Guide. Would others agree? Sounds like a fleccapedia entry on the horizon!

I was thinking along those exact same lines DJH. But can we really impose upon Tony to take on such an onerous task

I am sure there would be others willing to contribute, and I feel once it is up and running the day to day maintenance would be minimal and possibly lead to fewer questions, therefore less time consuming than constantly repeating detailed answers.

 

[flecc]

Sounds like a fleccapedia entry on the horizon!

Oh no! Not getting into anything comprehensive, perhaps some individual items like batteries only. I'm never convinced about this sort of thing though, general experience is that FAQs etc rarely work well to limit individual inquiries. For example, publish anything on how to treat lithium batteries and there's still inquiries like this:

"Does this apply to my li-polymer one?"

Answer that with "Yes", and the response is often "but my supplier says so-and-so?" or similar, and the end result is that it would have been easier to deal with the individual inquiry in the first place.

Try to obviate that by specifying all the different types and nomenclatures in the guide, and the end result confuses with it's excess of information. In that instance they might as well have been referred to or linked to the excellent Battery University site in the first place.

 

[Cyclezee]

OK then Tony,

Once all the basic info is on the guide, simply say for more detailed information click on the following link Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University.

You see, you have already given excellent advice, I had never heard of that web site before

 

[Kudoscycles]

Maybe-this will help,lifted from one of my old postings

I made this posting on a less often visited part of the forum,having gone through all the effort at my slow typing speeds I thought it might be useful to first time e-bike purchasers.
Dan....definitely go somewhere to ride a number of different types of e-bikes and maybe the following may help.
1. Decide on an approximate budget
2. Decide on the type of bike for your usage-Step through or X-bar,Mountain bike style or Tourer,Leisure or commuting,hub drive or crank drive...a good dealer should help
3. Decide on the range you are intending....no point carrying an expensive/heavy 20 Ah battery if your range will be 30 miles max but shame if you run out of power on a 50 mile ride,consider using 2 batteries only when needed.
4. Ask how much is the cost of replacement batteries...in the excitement of buying a new bike a £500 plus replacement battery may seem irelevant but 2 years later this could be a shock....this cost is the biggest single factor in the running cost of an e-bike....many contributors to this forum are still using batteries past their prime and some bikes are left in the shed because the owner cannot face the new battery cost.
5. EN15194 standard is a guarantee that your bike has been designed and built to a good standard.
6. Servicing-does the bike have a strong dealer support and does the manufacturer keep supporting spares stock....try to ask other owners as to how good was after sales service.
7. Look at the specification in detail...these e-bikes have so much power (your legs,200 watts + motor 250 watts) that you don't need 27 speed gears....a good Deore 9 speed or Nexus 8 speed may prove better than a cheap 27 speed deraillieur....the Nexus 8 speed internal hubs require no cleaning after use.
Look at the quality of all the fittings,try to buy established branded parts which will be easier to service.
8. Take one step back and ask yourself honestly do you like the look of the bike....it may have the best spec at the best price but you have to live with the style.
9. Try the bike on the type of terrain you intend to ride....will you be climbing hills all the time or on the flat?..will you go off-road?
10. Where will you store the bike,these bikes mostly weigh 20 kgs plus....do you have a store which has easy access. Do you need to transport the bike in a car or boat....maybe a small wheel folder would be a better choice.
11. Security....all our urban bikes have an inbuilt rear wheel lock but the bike can still be picked up and thrown in a van....our new ECO bike has the latest type lock which locks the rear wheel and has an extendable cable to attach to lamppost etc...if a success we will offer this as an option on all bikes....see the photos of ECO bike on our website showing this lock type.

The recent cycle show at the NEC was a brilliant venue for trying many different types of e-bike,most of the major importers were represented....it's a shame that the e-bike industry has not got it's act together and have a dedicated e-bike show preferably in the spring time-the Tour de Presteigne is very good and great fun but it's a difficult access location.
In writing this thread I can understand what a complex decision process must be involved in selecting a suitable e-bike....but never buy an e-bike without riding it-I have customers who order off the website and arrange collection-we ask them don't they want to ride the bike-nope I know exactly what I want-they invariably go home with a completely different bike to their first decision!!!!!!!!!
Dave
KudosCycles

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For E-Bikes with style visit www.kudoscycles.

 

[flecc]

You see, you have already given excellent advice,

Not so sure, many times the inquirer has then gone on to raise perceived conflicts with advice from here and the BU site!!!

I think there must be something psychologically reassuring about individual one-to-one advice, judging from how inquirers behave.

 

[flecc]

Here you are then John, a battery guide I've written:

E-bike batteries and their care

Lithium batteries. Lithium based batteries have become the standard for almost all e-bikes in the western world since they are so suited to this application. They are compact, light, can be charged at any time and are best used cyclically, that is topped up by charging frequently. Full charge times for most are around 4 hours per 10 Ah capacity. Here is the best way to care for all lithium types:

With a new battery, fully charge on receipt and then use it until empty or nearly empty to condition it. This ensures that all the internal cells are equalised and resets the zero point of any incorporated battery meter. This conditioning cycle can be repeated up to three times without harm, but once or twice is sufficient. Thereafter, top up the battery by charging frequently for the rest of it's life. Those batteries with an integral LED meter can have the readings of that drift over time, so if that happens, a repeat of a conditioning cycle to empty will reset the meter zero.

Never discharge a lithium battery using external means like light bulbs or resistors. Their cells have minimum safe voltages below which they are destroyed. E-bikes have low voltage cut-offs that protect batteries against this happening.

The life of lithium batteries is in part determined by their type. Those referred to as li-ion or li-poly had lives of up to 500 charges originally, but with development those are currently increasing with claims of 800 or even 1100 charges from some suppliers. The type referred to as LiFePO4 or lithium iron phosphate has a potentially longer life, generally from 1500 to over 2000 charges and with development promise more in future. There is a further rare type of lithium battery named SCiB, currently used on only one make of rather low powered e-bike. It has the ability to much faster charge, but the disadvantage of only half the capacity for for a given size. In all cases the life of lithium batteries is affected the rate of current discharge and therefore the motor power, so the most powerful motors lead to a shorter battery life than the less powerful ones. All types chemically age over time, so little used batteries can die well before the expected number of charges has been reached.

Storage when out of use. Any rechargeable lithium battery not in regular use must be top up charged at least once every three months, preferably every two months or it will become useless. If in very long term storage out of use, they are ideally stored with around 40% charge and refrigerated to near zero degrees C to limit age loss.

For some more advanced information on lithium types and chemistry, see this link to my post in the pedelecs forum:

Lithium battery types

SLA batteries. These are sealed lead-acid batteries, similar to those used in cars, but having paste rather than liquid electrolyte so that they can be used in any orientation. Used chiefly on low cost e-bikes since they are much less expensive than lithium types, they have some disadvantages. First they are very much heavier. Second they can have a shorter life in e-bike use. Third, due to something called the Peukert effect, they cannot give up all their charge content in high discharge applications like use with e-bikes, so range can be as little as half the expectation for a given capacity, depending on the motor power.

SLA batteries never need to be conditioned, but otherwise they should be treated the same as lithium, charged as often as possible. They usually take the form of two or three sealed 12 volt units which users can easily replace from within their outer case. When buying replacement 12 volt SLA batteries, it's important to get the high discharge types and not those designed for long life, low current applications like burglar alarm standby power.

NiMh batteries. Once the main type, Nickel Metal Hydride batteries are still used in a small minority of e-bikes. In weight they fall between lithium and SLA, but much lighter than the latter. Unlike lithium and SLA batteries, their charge content is best used as fully as possible each time, but if that's not practical, about once every 20 to 30 charges the battery should be emptied as much as possible by riding the bike to that low charge state. This is due to a tendency to suffer some small degree of "memory effect", this explained in the NiCad section below.

Never discharge an NiMh battery using external means like light bulbs or resistors. Their cells have minimum safe voltages below which they can be destroyed. E-bikes have low voltage cut-offs that protect batteries against this happening.

NiCad batteries. Large cell Nickel Cadmium batteries suitable for e-bikes are no longer in normal production due to the environmental toxicity of cadmium. Some were still in use until recently though, chiefly by Heinzmann motor kits. Although they only have about half the capacity of NiMh for a given cell size, in one way they were ideal for e-bike use since they could freely give up their current at very high discharge rates. However, as well as the toxicity, they had the disadvantage of a "memory effect". This meant that if part charged by topping up, the battery cells could chemically set up a barrier and thus "remember" the point from which the charge was applied. The effect of this was is that only the amount of the top up charge down to the chemical barrier could be used sometimes. This meant that they were best fully discharged before every charge, which was inconvenient.

Carefully designed charging techniques minimised this effect and cells which were locked in this way over time could be recovered by a special conditioning process applied by main dealers. However, these inconveniences meant NiCad was quickly superceded by NiMh for all but Heinzmann.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

That's it exactly Tony,

Just factual information with no marketing or trade input from people like me.

Now if Russ is agreeable, and I see no reason why not, your example and more like it could be placed in the unused First Timer Guide section along with a jargon busting glossary.

 

[flecc]

I've also got one on "Battery Meters" in the technical section which could be transferred. This answers the common quections on battery meter behaviours and inaccuracies:

Battery Meters

along with a jargon busting glossary.

Someone will ask, "What's a glossary?"!
.

 

[Cyclezee]

Once again brilliant Tony,

You have done lots of it already, we just need Russ to give it a permanent easily accessible home.