Velonoir

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 9, 2019
12
3
All points noted, and yes, it is indeed a mess. I guess as with many things, opinions vary, informed or otherwise.
I certainly don't profess to be an expert, or have any deep understanding of the legislation, and am probably approaching the issue in a somewhat simplistic manor looking at a part, rather than the whole.
Having said that, having had that reply to a direct question about installing a conversion kit, I would assume ( I know, when it comes to the law, never assume anything!) that armed with that answer, one would be able to argue the point if challenged. How valid an "opinion" from the DfT may be though, I don't know, and as you, and they point out only a court can decide.

All interesting stuff, and I know it affects a large number of less able cyclists. for whom the addition of a throttle would be a great asset.

As for Northern Ireland, crazy situation, The Assembly not having been in operation for so long, nothing's been done to update the legislation. I guess if the political will were there, the UK Govt could step in and amend the law as they did recently in the case of Gay Marriage, and Abortion, but Pedelecs are probably pretty low down on the list of priorities to be accused of meddling in Irish Politics.

I'll say no more on the matter, I'm sure that there are people who are far better informed out there to comment. I'll look forward to reading them

Anyway, far too nice a day to be on a computer, off for a ride on my 100% pedal powered Croix de Fer
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,931
Basildon
The chance of an accident involving the police would be very low.
The chance of the police noticing that you have a throttle after the accident is very low.
The chance that the police are bothered about the throttle if they saw it is very low.
The chance of a prosecution for using a throttle being successful is low.

Multiply all those low chances together and you get an infinitesimally low number.

When you've fitted a kit to a pre-2016 bike, how can they even know when you fitted it unless you tell them?

If the other side gets a barrister to come after you after you had an accident, they'll find a way to make you pay one way of another, just like that guy who bumped into the girl pedestrian who crossed against a red light, ran past, then jumped back into his path after he sounded his loud horn twice, leaving him no chance to avoid her. He had to pay £100K. I think we all have a lot more to worry about than throttles.
 
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Craiggor 2

Pedelecer
May 30, 2018
49
35
58
If the UK follow France's lead in allowing the use of electric scooters,skateboards etc it will make yet another mockery of pedelec law.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,299
27,014
Having said that, having had that reply to a direct question about installing a conversion kit, I would assume ( I know, when it comes to the law, never assume anything!) that armed with that answer, one would be able to argue the point if challenged.
I think it's usually best not to argue a point of law until actually up against the CPS or a senior court, especially not with a police officer if stopped for any reason. Acting the polite and respectful innocent generally pays best.
.
 

mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
3,010
1,627
The chance of an accident involving the police would be very low.
The chance of the police noticing that you have a throttle after the accident is very low.
The chance that the police are bothered about the throttle if they saw it is very low.
The chance of a prosecution for using a throttle being successful is low.

Multiply all those low chances together and you get an infinitesimally low number.

When you've fitted a kit to a pre-2016 bike, how can they even know when you fitted it unless you tell them?

If the other side gets a barrister to come after you after you had an accident, they'll find a way to make you pay one way of another, just like that guy who bumped into the girl pedestrian who crossed against a red light, ran past, then jumped back into his path after he sounded his loud horn twice, leaving him no chance to avoid her. He had to pay £100K. I think we all have a lot more to worry about than throttles.
The problem with statistics like these is:-
If there is only 1 in a million chances that you will get on the same plane as a person carrying a bomb,
And only 1 in ten billion chances that you will get on a plane with two persons carrying bombs,
then the logical thing to do is carry a bomb yourself.
 
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KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
3,209
887
Brighton
The problem with statistics like these is:-
If there is only 1 in a million chances that you will get on the same plane as a person carrying a bomb,
And only 1 in ten billion chances that you will get on a plane with two persons carrying bombs,
then the logical thing to do is carry a bomb yourself.
Ahh, I call this the Baldrick approach

Where he carves his own name into a bullet. On the basis that everyone has a bullet with their name on. Better to do yourself and not shoot yourself!!
 
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UrbanPuma

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 11, 2007
427
32
Well done to Wisper for keeping on top of the regulatory changes.

But it's worth pointing out that throttles - for many users - are not the benefit they think they are going to be.

Legal ebikes are not powerful enough to work very well on a throttle, and it's wearing - and deathly boring - sitting on a bike holding one open.

Pedalling helps control and balance and is not a hardship for most riders.
There is a subset of riders, disabled, undergoing rehabilitation etc, who absolutely will benefit from throttles. I also think it will help most riders too who are tired after a long ride or who need help on hills, junctions etc. It's a win for everyone.
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
14,562
5,650
58
West Sx RH
Fit one use it if needed, no ones going to be done for having one fitted. It's only it's use that is illegal . At most someone may be warned (highly unlikely) for it's use and that it has to be removed.
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,931
Basildon
The problem with statistics like these is:-
If there is only 1 in a million chances that you will get on the same plane as a person carrying a bomb,
And only 1 in ten billion chances that you will get on a plane with two persons carrying bombs,
then the logical thing to do is carry a bomb yourself.
Let's have some more realistic statistics then:

There's a 1 in 33 million chance of being struck dead by lightning per year in the UK, so if you've reached retirement age, you've beaten a 1 in 500,000 chance.

There's a roughly 1 in 500,000 chance that you would have been killed by a terrorist during the last 17 years.

There's roughly a 1 in 470,000 chance that you'll be mown down as a pedestrian each year.

Now think about people who got killed at work, murdered, crashed their cars, died of food poisoning, disease and everything else, and you start to think about being lucky to be alive.

Zero people have been prosecuted for using a throttle.

Which one do you worry about?
 
Last edited:

RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
1,628
1,642
Statistics always fascinate me mainly because they can vary by so much, take the lightning strike stat for example.
Every year 30-60 poor sods get hit by a bolt, and as there's just over 60 million souls in the UK that means the chances are actually 1 in one or two million.
That said in the overall scheme of things as you rightly say who cares about a trootle, sorry throttle.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,931
Basildon
My statistic above was for people killed by lightning, not just struck by it. I' be edited to make it clearer. Of course if you add all the people maimed for life in accidents, throttles become even less of a worry.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,299
27,014
Now think about people who got killed at work, murdered, crashed their cars, died of food poisoning, disease and everything else

Which one do you worry about?
Living of course, it just makes imminent death ever more certain.

We're all better off dead.
.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,931
Basildon
Living of course, it just makes imminent death ever more certain.

We're all better off dead.
.
Putting it like that, I'm pleased to use my throttle. Maybe I'll derestricted my bike too while I'm still alive and able to enjoy it.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
49,299
27,014
Putting it like that, I'm pleased to use my throttle. Maybe I'll derestricted my bike too while I'm still alive and able to enjoy it.
Agreed, my post was an inverted way of saying don't worry about any of those things while alive, just enjoy.
.
 

Jimo

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2018
256
94
84
Fakenham, Norfolk
Reading all this about throttles makes me pleased that my Batribike Quartz is a 2011 product having a full throttle, must be worth more now - but I’m not selling such a beauty.
Even Quartz’s are hard to find now, would be interested to know how many were sold....
 
A

allan

Guest
Pleased to read this thread. Reason being, I have an old hub motor kit fitted which has a throttle fitted. I bought and fitted the kit in 2014. My riding is a mix of towpath etc and road. On the road I use the throttle a great deal as it provides me with a safety choice in busy traffic, I can set off at lights etc and not worry about the double decker or lorry next to me, as I am no longer as confident when riding on roads. I know others who due to illnesses such as ms need the option.

Rather selfishly, I am happy to pedal somewhere but like the certainty that getting home will not need stamina so I can push my limits on the outward journey. Now I am heavier I will need to upgrade to a mid drive motor for the summer.
 

Charliefox

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 11, 2015
281
70
77
Culloden Moor Inverness
Pleased to read this thread. Reason being, I have an old hub motor kit fitted which has a throttle fitted. I bought and fitted the kit in 2014. My riding is a mix of towpath etc and road. On the road I use the throttle a great deal as it provides me with a safety choice in busy traffic, I can set off at lights etc and not worry about the double decker or lorry next to me, as I am no longer as confident when riding on roads. I know others who due to illnesses such as ms need the option.

Rather selfishly, I am happy to pedal somewhere but like the certainty that getting home will not need stamina so I can push my limits on the outward journey. Now I am heavier I will need to upgrade to a mid drive motor for the summer.
Better check if mid motors can be connected to throttles then. I used to think the same way about my throttle controlled diy MTB but on buying a new one with a centre motor, soon found that a high power setting gave just as much urge from the lights and a more comfortable wrist too.
 
G

Gabriel91x

Guest
Hello,

For my understanding, can I legally obtain approval to have a full working throttle on my diy converted ebike? Or I necessarily need to buy a certain store e-bike to get approval?

Many thanks!
 
G

Gabriel91x

Guest
Hello!

So would a diy e-bike conversion with 500-1000w bafang hub motor, max speed limit 15.5 mph and with an open throttle be legal on public roads if it has SVA certificate? Correct? I thought it has to be max 250w?