My main issue was the other bikes on their site. The torq's battery technology looks out of date compared to newer bikes (as expected for an older bike) but the actual look of the bike is fine. I just felt it was a bit off the guy ezee moaning about the look of the x6.
Got my Powabyke X6!!
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Mattyduk and Maca44, I think you've misread what I posted. This is what I quoted from Mattyduk's posting:
Maca44, I don't understand you at all. The bike style you like such as the Cytronex Trek looks exactly like the good bikes 30 years ago, and very similar to the old bikes Frank has bought now. Since then much of bike design has moved on to exactly what you seem to dislike in the Torq, mountain bike style sloping crossbars etc, so you seem to be arguing against yourself.
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and I was commenting on and disagreeing with that battery issue alone, not commenting on the Powabyke X6 or the eZee Sprint. I agree about the Powabyke X6 since if there's going to be a bottle battery, it should look like a bottle.
Maca44, I don't understand you at all. The bike style you like such as the Cytronex Trek looks exactly like the good bikes 30 years ago, and very similar to the old bikes Frank has bought now. Since then much of bike design has moved on to exactly what you seem to dislike in the Torq, mountain bike style sloping crossbars etc, so you seem to be arguing against yourself.
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Older bike? The Torq 1 was introduced just two years ago, the Torq 2 successor barely over a year ago.
Rear of seat tube batteries are very much the norm on e-bikes designed from the ground up, with just the tiny Cytronex company and now Powabyke doing bottle imitations. I don't think those two exceptions, one sold in tiny numbers and the other just entering the market means most of the others are now outdated, since both of those new introductions could yet fail.
In both cases the main reason for the bottle battery is that they are using an existing bike which has no built-in provision for a battery, and in the Cytronex case there's no carrier leaving them only the within-frame option. Lacking a facility doesn't make those having the facility outdated.
As well as in bottles now, batteries on e-bikes have been put above and below carriers, hanging alongside carriers, within the frame triangle, inside frame tubes and even inside mock wheel motor hubs, but the only battery placement that's stood the test of time so far has been the rear of seat tube one. I'm betting that won't change for the latest gimmick in the same way it hasn't changed for the previous ones.
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I am not arguing with myself or anyone else I'm just saying what I like & dislike which I should be able to do on any open forum.
If I thought that the Cytronex was great I would have brought one by now bacause it is the only bike I see on the market that has a modern look & has basic acceptable parts fitted & not parts that were fitted to bikes 30years ago. I guess I am just used to making my own bikes up & able to fit top end components that last, it's a shame that I can't go & buy a ebike that has the same sort quality my MTB's have & that is why I have to make my own ebike from scratch.
I guess I must be getting well past it !!
Functionality and Perfomance by far outweigh my rquirements
with regard to perceived fashion.
richard
( a happy coffin dodger)
Functionality and Perfomance by far outweigh my rquirements
with regard to perceived fashion.
richard
( a happy coffin dodger)
Of course you can and I've no objection whatsoever. I just asked for clarification on what it was you liked, since the Cytronex Trek is very much like thirty year old bikes which you seem to disparage. I think we agree in fact on good bike design and I see it as timeless, bikes looking like the Treks looking much the same for half a century.
I certainly agree on component quality, few e-bikes using anything other than basic ranges to keep the prices down. Some e-bikes do use the best stuff at a price, BikeTech Flyers for example, but the utility bike styling wouldn't meet your approval.
You've puzzled me again by referring to e-bikes using parts fitted thirty years ago though, since I don't know of anything fitting that description. Certainly the parts fitted on those eZee bikes are all current stuff, V or disc brakes and not the calipers and centre pull that were once common, derailleurs that are current Shimano ranges, likewise current hub gears.
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Mattyduk - totally agree. First I was attracted by the look of a bike. Then I tried to get a feel for the technical quality of the bike, then the confidence in the supplier. But the final decision factor (apart from cost) was did the bike look the part.
Personally I thought the Wisper looked great. Seemed like a quality electric bike and technically sound. The supplier looked to be excellent. But I couldn't see myself cycling to work on it. It was just a bit too different to the bikes at work. Then I saw the Cytronex and all was lost
. Looks great to me but probably not everyones cup of tea. Have to say I'm not particulary fit but then I'm not doing the enormous distances some people on this forum are doing so I don't care about the range.Now if I was retired on a decent pension, lived out in the sticks, and had to cycle a dozen miles to the local post office and back I'd I've quite likely gone for a Wisper or Kalkhoff and no doubt been very happy too.
I must be me, but to me the differences in the general appearance of the eZee Torq, the eZee Forza, the eZee Forte and the Powacycle Salisbury are trifling.
I agree about the Sprint, but it's the earliest of all the eZee designs and step-throughs can never be stylish whatever is done to them. The Liv is also based on an earlier e-bike.
The Cadence is a typical US style cruiser bike which I can't stand the sight of, but there is a market for these and one member pleaded for one so much after an earlier discontinuation that one was found especially for him. Not only that, it was reintroduced to the range due to public demand!!
Horses for courses, and a manufacturer cannot be blamed for listening to customers.
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I agree about the Sprint, but it's the earliest of all the eZee designs and step-throughs can never be stylish whatever is done to them. The Liv is also based on an earlier e-bike.
The Cadence is a typical US style cruiser bike which I can't stand the sight of, but there is a market for these and one member pleaded for one so much after an earlier discontinuation that one was found especially for him. Not only that, it was reintroduced to the range due to public demand!!
Horses for courses, and a manufacturer cannot be blamed for listening to customers.
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They're only photo's I know, but if I was pushed, I'd go for the Torq. Looks a bit less chunky. 2nd choice Forza. Agree though - not much in it.
Those would be my preferences too, but I'd guess that if all those were given an identical paint job it would need a double take to tell which was which.
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It's a funny little discussion, and it's not really core to this thread on the Powabyke!
I think everyone seems to agree that we don't like really ugly bikes with big fat tubes and ugly distractions on them! The confusing bit is that Maca44 keeps saying they look old fashioned - but actually they don't because for pretty much all of the 20th century, apart from a few years at either end, most bikes were elegant, lightweight things made of very thin tubes! Ugly bikes with big fat tubes are a very modern, 21st century, thing.
There are a couple of other points about components that should be answered. Firstly we should say in Mr Ching's favour is that, of the hub motor bikes on the market, the Ezee range probably has the best quality components fitted. I was criticising this about halfway through the thread as being overkill on an electric, but we can't criticise Ezee both for having too cheap and too expensive components. Secondly, it's not right to say that more expensive components last longer. In fact the opposite is often true. The high end bits are designed for lightness and can often be less robust and hard wearing than the more basic groupsets. That is why I think Powabyke is actually not wrong to fit basic but good quality components, rather than over-specced but less hard-wearing ones.
I think everyone seems to agree that we don't like really ugly bikes with big fat tubes and ugly distractions on them! The confusing bit is that Maca44 keeps saying they look old fashioned - but actually they don't because for pretty much all of the 20th century, apart from a few years at either end, most bikes were elegant, lightweight things made of very thin tubes! Ugly bikes with big fat tubes are a very modern, 21st century, thing.
There are a couple of other points about components that should be answered. Firstly we should say in Mr Ching's favour is that, of the hub motor bikes on the market, the Ezee range probably has the best quality components fitted. I was criticising this about halfway through the thread as being overkill on an electric, but we can't criticise Ezee both for having too cheap and too expensive components. Secondly, it's not right to say that more expensive components last longer. In fact the opposite is often true. The high end bits are designed for lightness and can often be less robust and hard wearing than the more basic groupsets. That is why I think Powabyke is actually not wrong to fit basic but good quality components, rather than over-specced but less hard-wearing ones.
As your confused perhaps I should make myself more clear.
In my opinion the bike in question looks outdated compared to modern bikes & I think the reason you might be confused is the fact that perhaps many of the people here might be retired or a bit older than myself & also you might just use your e bikes to make short journeys etc, no, I am not trying to insult anyone I just think this is why your confused when I say it looks outdated because I guess your used to the older syle of bike.
I have never had any Shimano XTR/XT part on my bike fail simply because they are made so well & using hydraulic disc brakes are a huge step forward from V's as fitted on most ebikes (Excluding the very cheap cable disc brakes fitted on some ebikes which are rubbish). When I first used a bike with cheaper parts fitted many years ago & similar to the cheap parts fitted to the Powabyke it basically fell to bits within a short time & things like the cheap steel chainset bent because it was made of cheap steel like the bike in question here, however if you are just popping to the corner shop on your powabyke then yes it will last years & I suspect will be more than adequate for most of you.
My style of riding is much more demanding than yourself I guess & that is why I am more critical when I see this type of bike being sold in a time when bikes have advanced so much & parts can be made that are light & don't fail even under heavy usage. I am a great believer in the use of ebikes for many reasons & find it frustrating that bikes being made today are simply behind the times & will only appeal to perhaps older gent/ladies or people who just use the bike to pop to the shop etc. Unless they start making bikes that appeal to younger riders then the ebike will not move forward & become popular which is a real shame.
Be careful of assuming you know what other people's experience is! To give you some context, I ride between 5-6,000 miles per year on non-electric bikes - a mixture of high speed London commuting and tours, in the UK and Europe. My main bike, and its components, have a fairly demanding life. I assure you that the fact that other people may use their bikes less and/or be older than you or than me, doesn't make me in the slightest confused!
As you say - and I agree wth you here - some components are rubbish and drop to bits before you try to use them. But Powabyke don't fit those - they fit mostly low end Shimano kit, which is not necessarily the slickest to use but it is generally reliable. Remember Powabyke is the market leader with a reputation for reliability. Their bikes are not necessarily the best performers but they do keep going (ask any bike shop).
I know from my own experience, and reading that of others who have more than me, that all bike components wear out (apart from quality steel frames, if looked after). High end components are more expensive, not because they last longer. They are typically smoother to use, and lighter. Neither of those things make them longer lasting and in many cases make them wear out quicker, because they simply use less metal to save weight, they are more delicate, or use aluminium rather than steel.
Regarding your old fashioned point, get an old book, look on eBay, or take a walk around an area with lots of old bikes parked. There are loads of 20-30 year old bikes in daily use, as they last a long time. They look nothing like an Ezee Sprint or a Powabyke!
As you say - and I agree wth you here - some components are rubbish and drop to bits before you try to use them. But Powabyke don't fit those - they fit mostly low end Shimano kit, which is not necessarily the slickest to use but it is generally reliable. Remember Powabyke is the market leader with a reputation for reliability. Their bikes are not necessarily the best performers but they do keep going (ask any bike shop).
I know from my own experience, and reading that of others who have more than me, that all bike components wear out (apart from quality steel frames, if looked after). High end components are more expensive, not because they last longer. They are typically smoother to use, and lighter. Neither of those things make them longer lasting and in many cases make them wear out quicker, because they simply use less metal to save weight, they are more delicate, or use aluminium rather than steel.
Regarding your old fashioned point, get an old book, look on eBay, or take a walk around an area with lots of old bikes parked. There are loads of 20-30 year old bikes in daily use, as they last a long time. They look nothing like an Ezee Sprint or a Powabyke!
Yes, as Frank says Maca44, the modern e-bikes look nothing like any old fashioned bikes, whether you like them or not they are right up to date designs and being nothing at all like 30 year old bikes. It's the bikes you obviously like which are very similar to 30 years ago, as I said above, timeless good design. I'm ex cycle trade and have maintained close contact with it ever since leaving it, so am very familiar with what is dated or not.
While I agree with you about good components and design, I strongly disagree about disc brakes which are inferior to V brakes. Two proofs. 1) A disc brake's efficiency is primarily determined by the disc diameter, and the wheel rim is the largest disc of all, the V brake being it's caliper. 2) You don't see disc brakes in cycle road racing such as the Tour de France, simply because they are not good enough.
Certainly discs have their uses, avoidance of rim wear, use off road in muddy conditions when rim brakes can clog, and they can look good, but better than V brakes? Never.
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While I agree with you about good components and design, I strongly disagree about disc brakes which are inferior to V brakes. Two proofs. 1) A disc brake's efficiency is primarily determined by the disc diameter, and the wheel rim is the largest disc of all, the V brake being it's caliper. 2) You don't see disc brakes in cycle road racing such as the Tour de France, simply because they are not good enough.
Certainly discs have their uses, avoidance of rim wear, use off road in muddy conditions when rim brakes can clog, and they can look good, but better than V brakes? Never.
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I can clearly see that the parts fitted to the powerbyke are not of a high standard so I do not agree with you. I am sure that if, as you say, powerbyke is a market leader it is because it's clients are of an older generation & don't go far on these bike & they have designed the bike with that ridiculous looking battery with a very limited range because of this fact.
I agree to disagree with you on this one.
Your statement regards the Hydraulic disc brakes is bizarre, a good set of V's will work well but nothing like using disc brakes at all, not only is the braking power in wet weather or dry far superior but also the whole feel of braking with discs is far far better & smoother than V's & I am surprised that you think otherwise being in trade as you say. If you look at the modern suspension forks, I'm not talking about Suntour etc I am talking about proper forks, they mostly come in disc only design for good reason & I see many good online bike shops now mostly stock disc brakes & are doing away with V's simply because discs are much better/safer to use.
I will also agree to dis agree with you also.
Good day to you sir
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