How much have electric bikes improved?

[Davall]

After 20 years out of it, I've re-joined the fold!

Things have now moved on. Having seen the questionable colour scheme of the 2010 Tasman, a drab looking brown/bronze affair, I just couldn’t proceed. An expensive bike will deserve some TLC and I just couldn’t bring myself to love one in that colour. I'm not generally fussed about such things and almost any other colour than horse dung would have been fine.... So I changed my mind, decided to push the boat out for what I really wanted in an electric bike, and am now the proud owner of a….

…Pro Connect S instead.

And what a machine. So far it’s done almost everything I wanted from an electric bike, romping up all the local hills with just gentle to moderate pedalling and the first battery charge has lasted a creditable 23 miles from full to dead.

Lugging a 17st rider around the Chiltern Hills, that’s an impressive range. The range and hill climbing are indeed a revelation after my 1987 e-bike and I thank the contributors on this forum once again for sharing their knowledge and offering valuable advice to help guide my purchase.

The bike’s preparation wasn’t quite as good as it could have been and apart from having to screw down the valve seats to the rims, I've had to adjust the remote fork lock-out cable so that lock-out can actually be achieved (the cable's ferrule hadn't been properly seated when adjusted at the pre-delivery inspection) and adjust the front brake shoes so one wasn’t going to rub into the tyre bead as it wore down.

Minor matters for someone with basic knowledge of bike maintenance, easily resolved, and, to a degree, I could even overlook the bottle cage lug which has previously been overtightened and stripped the thread on the downtube (any ideas for repair please anyone?).

No, the real disappointing aspect on this bike is that Chinese made front fork. It’s rubbish. Even on the softest preload settting, it doesn’t absorb any road bumps and is shamed by the Rock Shox and Cannondale Headshock on my two mountain bikes. That’s quite poor and unexpected on a £2,195 bike. I was looking for a soft and compliant fork to counteract the harsh ride of an aluminium frame, but this isn’t it. It feels no different whether the fork is locked out or on its softest setting -- it's that unyielding! Can anyone recommend a replacement that would fit? When I recover from the bike’s initial outlay, I might have to treat myself.

Other than that though, the bike should hopefully bring much pleasure and looks set to fulfil my main objective which was to get more exercise/lose weight in as enjoyable and tolerable a way as possible.

 

[Mussels]

No, the real disappointing aspect on this bike is that Chinese made front fork. It’s rubbish. Even on the softest preload settting, it doesn’t absorb any road bumps and is shamed by the Rock Shox and Cannondale Headshock on my two mountain bikes. That’s quite poor and unexpected on a £2,195 bike. I was looking for a soft and compliant fork to counteract the harsh ride of an aluminium frame, but this isn’t it. It feels no different whether the fork is locked out or on its softest setting -- it's that unyielding! Can anyone recommend a replacement that would fit? When I recover from the bike’s initial outlay, I might have to treat myself.

It sounds faulty to me, have you spoken to 50cycles?

 

[flecc]

The very soft acting forks used on some mountain bikes can sometimes be dangerous at speed though, running into instability on very bumpy or ridged surfaces when the damping can be inadequate. The Pro Connect S is a high speed model and firm forks are more stable on that, though I know the forks Kalkhoff use are quite stiff when new.

I think you should ride it a few miles before deciding to change the forks since they may well free up somewhat, though they will never be soft acting.
.

 

[Davall]

Thanks chaps.

I suspect Flecc is right, maybe a few miles might loosen it up a little. I don't particularly subscribe to the thinking on high speed instability with softer forks though. I've flown down some Alpine hills at prolonged high speeds on my much softer Rock-Shox fork with no concerns at all.

With the ProConnect S's promising set-up offering adjustable preload plus variabe degree of lock-out, it ought to be possible to set the fork up exactly as I want, dialling in anything from soft to firm, but as it stands, the range is from hard & unyielding to rock solid -- quite disappointing at the price.

Time will tell.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

I can't but echo Mussels's comment - a word with the supplier seems to be in order...

 

[flecc]

I don't particularly subscribe to the thinking on high speed instability with softer forks though.

This isn't universal, it depends on whether the forks are adequately damped. Unfortunately too many bike suspension fork designs are soft acting without adequate damping.

Every and any vehicle is unsafe if the suspension isn't adequately damped, it inevitably leads to instability in some circumstances. It's why shock absorbers have always been a major check point in MOTs and such a common reason for MOT failures.
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[Davall]

Agreed flecc. A good fork should offer adequate damping across its adjustable range from soft to firm.

I can't but echo Mussels's comment - a word with the supplier seems to be in order...

Indeed. The suppliers read and participate in this forum. I can't tell them anything that they won't already have seen here, and I deduce that they already know how firm and unyielding the ProConnect S forks are.

I will take flecc's advice and see if they free up any with use.

Any comments from the other ProConnect S owners on this board? The preload adjustment makes only the tiniest difference from one extreme to the other on mine. Even the softest setting needs a considerable downforce on the handlebars to get the stanchions to move -- do you find the same? If so, then that is the standard, if not then mine might indeed be faulty.

 

[flecc]

I can only speak of the Kalkhoff Agattu that I tested when new, but that was exactly as you describe yours. That suited me since I don't like suspension on bikes, but someone liking soft fork action would certainly find them very stiff acting.

The Agattu and Tasman appear to use the same forks, so perhaps the Agattu owners could comment on the amount of loosening up, since some have been on the road for more than a year now.
.

 

[Hugh]

Hi - I've also just bought a Pro Connect S and entirely agree with your comments on the suspension (above). I'm assuming, perhaps rashly, that it will ease up a bit with use, but like you, I'm a bit disconcerted by the lack of compliance on something that promises much more adjustment, especially as fitted to a bike of this price.

My Cannondale HeadShok is much more controllable and controlled.

I'd also echo the surprise of another poster (Hansdawes, earlier today) re the valves fitted to the Kalkhoff - I haven't seen a Woods valve in 40 years - the last were on an old heap of a 3-speed Hercules.

Still, proof of the pudding and all that.

 

[flecc]

I'd also echo the surprise of another poster (Hansdawes, earlier today) re the valves fitted to the Kalkhoff - I haven't seen a Woods valve in 40 years - the last were on an old heap of a 3-speed Hercules.

Though as I remarked in that other thread, they are still widely used on the continent and in many third world countries. This issue is related to utility cycling, shopping, general journeys etc, things that almost completely died out in Britain. It was utility bikes that mainly used the old valve type, so Britain was largely left with the sport bikes and later on, mountain bikes, using Presta and Schrader valves respectively.

On much of the continent and in third world countries, utility cycling has remained continuously popular and it's this that has led to the persistence of the simple Woods/Dunlop valves.
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[Davall]

This bike is trying me!

Thanks Hugh, good to hear from you. That confirms my suspicion that it's just a poor quality fork on the Pro Connect S. Let's just say that clocking the "made in China" label on my fork came as no surprise. Lugging all that extra weight around for next to no gain. For me it lets the whole bike down and is unforgivable on such an expensive machine.... remembering that a brand new 125cc Honda motorcycle would have cost less!

Nothing particularly wrong with Woods valves in my view, but yes, I did have a chuckle when I saw them too! Not sure I've seen any Woods inner tubes for sale in a long while though, so we might have to move to Presta or Schrader for convenience at some stage.

Speaking of which, I got my first puncture today, rear wheel, at a total odometer mileage of..... just 28 miles

So much for the top drawer, handmade, puncture resistant Continental Topcontact tyres. I'm seriously beginning to wish I'd gone with plan A now and bought the Alien Gents II and saved £1600....

What are people's thoughts on Green Slime please? Does it affect the ride quality or the feel of the bike? Does it work or is it hype? Is there a better product? Advantages/disadvantages? I've been cycling all my life but never used this type of product before, so would value your opinions, thanks.

 

[Mussels]

Speaking of which, I got my first puncture today, rear wheel, at a total odometer mileage of..... just 28 miles

So much for the top drawer, handmade, puncture resistant Continental Topcontact tyres. I'm seriously beginning to wish I'd gone with plan A now and bought the Alien Gents II and saved £1600....

What are people's thoughts on Green Slime please? Does it affect the ride quality or the feel of the bike? Does it work or is it hype? Is there a better product? Advantages/disadvantages? I've been cycling all my life but never used this type of product before, so would value your opinions, thanks.

TopContact are nothing special IMO, I've got TopContact Winter tyres fitted at the moment which are a niche product and work fairly well so far. Previously when I've had that type of tyre the carcass was cut by something in the ropad and the handling went funny, not impressed really but I've not found the ultimate tyre yet. If you really want to avoid punctures then it's probably a Marathon Plus you want, I've avoided them so far but I'm tempted.
My experiments with liquid Slime have been mixed, in a motorbike tyre it worked fairly well but with an inner tube I don't trust it, plus it make proper repairs harder to do. It only takes 5 minutes to fix a puncture, they happen and I've had loads despite using only puncture resistant tyres. The slime inserts caused bad punctures for me, when I took them back the guy behind the counter said it was a common complaint.

 

[flecc]

Slime and the like don't work well on bikes, or with any inner tubes for that matter, since these were originally developed for tubeless tyre where the concept works quite well. We've had a number of threads on this and the great majority say it hasn't worked for them with only a couple swearing by it.

I've had three sessions of trying these products on bikes in the past and have been let down with every puncture, the resulting sticky mess making subsequent patching infinitely more difficult, so a firm thumbs down from me. Repairing a puncture is so easy that the risk of slime not working really isn't worth it.

Using Marathon Plus tyres is also my favourite way of avoiding punctures.
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[lemmy]

On much of the continent and in third world countries, utility cycling has remained continuously popular and it's this that has led to the persistence of the simple Woods/Dunlop valves.
.

I bought an Agattu precisely because of its utility bike nature.

I believe Woods valves are commonplace in Germany. Since my foot pump goes straight on using the presta fitting, I find no advantage or disadvantage in them.

In principle I don't like suspension on a bike and never used it on my bikes in France. But on returning to the UK, with the appalling state of the roads and the surface repairs carried out by demolition men, I actually opted for it on my non-electric bike. As the forks come on the Agattu is as I would like them to stay.

I use my Agattu around London for getting to places to carry out my stock photography. Car is too expensive and restrictive around town but on my normal bike with back full of gear, a trip to central London return (about 20 miles) leaves me tired.

I thought about getting a small motor cycle but again, insurance, helmet, cold weather gear et al is just too restrictive. And still some parking problems.

Then I thought of an electric motor scooter. Trouble there is that you have a restricted range and if you do run out of power you're stymied.

Then, the Agattu. I regard it more as a moped than a bicycle. It's practical transport with all the freedom of a bicycle but I can get to north London and back with charge left over by using assistance only when needed -and still get home reasonably fresh.

And if I do use all the power, I can still get home under my own steam.

I've used bikes all my life but mostly for practical transport and getting about rather than an enthusiast. I am a bike user rather than a cyclist!

 

[flecc]

I've used bikes all my life but mostly for practical transport and getting about rather than an enthusiast. I am a bike user rather than a cyclist!

Me too for much of my cycling life Lemmy, usually with large panniers or sometimes a trailer attached. But we've been quite a rare breed in Britain from the 1960s until quite recently, and Britain is still way behind northern Europe for utility cycling.
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[Dynamic Position]

Any comments from the other ProConnect S owners on this board? The preload adjustment makes only the tiniest difference from one extreme to the other on mine. Even the softest setting needs a considerable downforce on the handlebars to get the stanchions to move -- do you find the same? If so, then that is the standard, if not then mine might indeed be faulty.

My ProConnect S has done 700 miles and the front fork, is fairly stiff. I noticed the suspension kicking in when I hit a pot-hole. The ProConnect S does absorb much of the energy. My comparison being made with my Raleigh P4000 which only had rudimentary suspension within the seat post! I also notice the shocks movement 0f 1mm-4mm when stopped with my body movements. In the early days the bike and I was shaken to bits when I rode along a cobblestone street under power. Out of curiosity, I must try that street again sometime.
So far the ProConnect S has been an excellent bike. The only problem I have had has been with the L.H.S. pedal reflectors which have broken off.

 

[JamesC]

S forks on standard ProConnect

Having done about 2300 miles on the standard ProConnect with rigid forks, I was still finding the ride a little harsh on gravel/cinder styles of track. Whenever possible, I like to use dedicated cycle tracks.

Over the course of the past year, I have also had the opportunity of riding a new Tasman and a well used Agattu; both with suspension forks. With some 2500 miles on the clock, the Agattu gives a particularly comfortable ride, with the preload set quite close to the hardest setting.

Having experienced the comfort of the suspension forks on these bikes, I decided to try the ProConnect S forks on my regular ProConnect. Frame geometry at the front is very similar and so the change is straight forward.

I don't have many miles on this set up yet, but I would agree that these RST forks with the RL lockout are considerably firmer than the non-lockout forks of the Tasman/Agattu.

No doubt they are much firmer than the type of fork fitted to mountain bikes - I have no experience there.

I am using the S forks on the softest preload setting, and from my perspective, the ride is meeting my needs - significantly easier than the rigid forks that I am used to.

The longer (uncut) steerer tube of the new set of forks gives me an extra 40mm of height to the handlebars, replacing the stem raiser that I had been using.

I will be interested to hear of your experiences with other makes of fork if you do get round to replacing them.

James

 

[Davall]

Thanks for the Slime advice above. Puncture patched (actually punctures - a sharp flint removed from the tyre had holed the tube in not one but two adjacent places.... and yes I found that out the hard way... )

Second hole fixed and back on the road again.

Dynamic Position - thanks for your response. Your forks sound like mine, the difference being to me that 1 to 4mm is almost imperceptible in terms of fork movement and makes it barely worth installing, given its considerable additional weight penalty. To me a fork ought to move more like 1 to 4cm under body movement, not 1 to 4mm. That has been my complaint and is what I dislike about this poor fork.

A cobblestone street on a bike with a good fork should not shake you to bits, not in my opinion at least. You have reinforced my own findings.

JamesC - thanks for your reply too. Yes, they are much firmer than a typical mountain bike fork.... and all the worse for it. The purpose of lockout is to stop the fork bounce when riding uphill. The rest of the time, the fork should damp out vibration and offer a good, softish ride. These don't. On this ProConnect S fork there is never any need to engage lockout, because the fork is very nearly that firm to begin with!

I might decide to change mine in due course but cannot afford to do so at the moment while still recovering from the swingeing purchase price of the bike (and why should I have to?). Such a disappointment on an otherwise very nice machine.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Hi Davall - this sounds most aggravating - surely you should put the issue directly to the supplier and see how they respond. That way both you and they might benefit!

 

[JamesC]

Dynamic Position - thanks for your response. Your forks sound like mine, the difference being to me that 1 to 4mm is almost imperceptible in terms of fork movement and makes it barely worth installing, given its considerable additional weight penalty. To me a fork ought to move more like 1 to 4cm under body movement, not 1 to 4mm. That has been my complaint and is what I dislike about this poor fork.

A cobblestone street on a bike with a good fork should not shake you to bits, not in my opinion at least. You have reinforced my own findings.

I am 14stone+; a cobble street would show a movement of about 25-30 mm on my S forks with the left hand side preload on the softest setting.

Have you tried loosening the cable clamp on the right hand side to double check that the Remote Lockout is returning to the fully soft position ?

The return spring is not very powerful; the cable has to be sliding very freely for the rotary adjustment to return to fully soft operation.

James