Help! I need more power (not speed)

KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
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Brighton
I know folk are going to kill me on this but it's my experience so there you are

I have a front 350w BPM in the shed and at 48v I'll take the xf07 all day long. I used that BPM for years with various voltages and controllers / amps and it never died. But I get double the mileage on the 07 with very very similar real world performance. It's only a year old though
 
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Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
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West Sx RH
This surprised me when I opened the controller. It was the first I’d seen without the classic shunt. Guess I’m outta touch these days
The integrated battery controllers are compact Kirstin, some are potted in silicon certainly on the underside and use tiny compact solid state components, though cap cans are still present.
The dolphin 09 controller is a double decker but so compact and tiny pcb's.
 

jarob10

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2017
244
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Uk
Looks like this type of integrated controller has a shunt. Whether it’s sensible or to solder is another question though

75965B3C-2279-492A-9D1D-26B0EE4D077F.png
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Your forks are probably on the limit with the motor you already have. I think a BPM in them running with high current is going to end in tears. If you want a front BPM, take my advice and find some used steel forks on ebay.
 
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Ghola

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 22, 2018
16
3
50
Exeter
Your forks are probably on the limit with the motor you already have. I think a BPM in them running with high current is going to end in tears. If you want a front BPM, take my advice and find some used steel forks on ebay.
Cool, thanks, I’ll grab them next week

After I have them what do I do/get next? What options are open to me?
 

minexplorer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 22, 2017
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It could be said you have been riding your luck with no Torque arm/s (T/A's) on the front, though the Suntour has a meaty strong D/O area. They are used to prevent motor spin out which can and will damage the motor cable esp where it enters the hub.
I had a pair of T/A's with BPM in similar newer Suntour's just for safety, the Suntour's do have a good strong solid D/O area. The same motor with Rockshock forks didn't fair so well and broke both of the D/O's which are no where near as strong as the Suntour, T/A's prevent total spin out and me an accident.
Blimey neal how many bikes do you have,seems like hundreds from your posts..lol .i struggle to give equal use to my 2 an wish i had one really. plus a third,now the missus one doesnt get much use. How do you use em all?

Out of interest how many Ebikes do others have? feel free to chip in.
 

sjpt

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 8, 2018
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1 e-tandem, 1 solo e-bike, and 1 solo non-E bike between my wife and me.
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,976
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West Sx RH
As many as you wish there is no law against how many though you can only ride one at a time.
 

KirstinS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 5, 2011
3,209
886
Brighton
Your forks are probably on the limit with the motor you already have. I think a BPM in them running with high current is going to end in tears. If you want a front BPM, take my advice and find some used steel forks on ebay.
Yep, it will.

I trashed a nice set of magura suss forks dropouts with magnesium lowers this way. Even with good torque arms fitted

Oh and currently two ebikes - one HT crank drive and one hybrid front hub
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,520
23,354
This surprised me when I opened the controller. It was the first I’d seen without the classic shunt. Guess I’m outta touch these days
Panasonic did things in reverse with their crank units. The first series from 2001 had no shunt but the second from 2006 had a useful shunt for soldering:


.
 
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Ghola

Finding my (electric) wheels
Feb 22, 2018
16
3
50
Exeter
What forks is it in? How many torque arms do you have on it?
I ordered the forks and should be here in a couple of days @vfr400

So, what advice is there for getting more power up the hills.? Do you need more info from me on the kit or something.

I got no problem spending a bit more money, buying a new motor or mid drive kit or controller as long as I can re-use these batteries somehow, I dunno
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
14,989
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I got no problem spending a bit more money, buying a new motor or mid drive kit or controller as long as I can re-use these batteries somehow, I dunno
vfr is a bit obsessed with torque arms because he lost two before but it has not much to do with this thread.
You need either more Amps or a CD kit to leverage on the bike's gearing to get more NM at the wheel. Or both.
I could sell you a Gospade CD kit or you can get a BBS02 from Eclispse to work with your 17AH battery.
You will need to replace the cradle when you change the kit to a CD kit, email support@wooshbikes.co.uk when you get the new kit. The Gospade is labelled 250W, the BBS02 is labelled as 500W.
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
Your motor can handle 22 amps, so get a 22 amp KT Sinewave controller from PSWPower along with the LCD, pedal sensor, speed sensor (if your motor cable doesn't have the white wire) and PAS (unless you don't mind messing about with connectors). You then have a choice of upgrading your battery to 48v for another 33% more torque.

If you stick with your present battery for the time being, you unsolder the red and black wires from the back of the battery connector and run them to the new controller, which you stick in a toolbag under the saddle.

There might not be enough motor cable to reach the controller, in which case you can get some extension or put the controller in a different bag somewhere else.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Your motor can handle 22 amps, so get a 22 amp KT Sinewave controller from PSWPower along with the LCD, pedal sensor, speed sensor (if your motor cable doesn't have the white wire) and PAS (unless you don't mind messing about with connectors). You then have a choice of upgrading your battery to 48v for another 33% more torque.

If you stick with your present battery for the time being, you unsolder the red and black wires from the back of the battery connector and run them to the new controller, which you stick in a toolbag under the saddle.

There might not be enough motor cable to reach the controller, in which case you can get some extension or put the controller in a different bag somewhere else.
he has an HL battery, so it needs and HL controller which can only have 6-FET, that's why I set the controller to 17A sine wave. The XF07 will hit magnetic saturation and suffer if you send 22A into it.
the KT HL controller will only go up to 18A anyway, not a big improvement.
You could consider upping the voltage but that would make the bike go faster, not much more torque.
If he changes the motor to a BPM, he only gets an improvement at low revs hill climbingwhile the handling would be worse with extra unsprung weight at the fork.
That's why I suggest to change to CD kit, you get an overall improvement for your cash.
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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he has an HL battery, so it needs and HL controller which can only have 6-FET, that's why I set the controller to 17A sine wave. The XF07 will hit magnetic saturation and suffer if you send 22A into it.
He can use any controller he wants.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
He can use any controller he wants.
and make the wiring look like a Christmas tree lighting? if you think Julet waterproof connectors are less good than soldering, how about exposed JST connectors that non-customized controllers use?
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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12,272
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I don't have Julet connectors, and I'm very happy.
Hands up those who agree with you.
In my experience, nearly all customers would not want to cut cables and solder them, unless they need to lengthen them like in tandems and can't find a ready made extension cable.
Julet connectors are popular with bike manufacturers because they make wiring simpler and more reliable.
 
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