independent e bike technician

If I understand stevieb correctly, he would feel vulnerable that his dealer would not be capable of repairing his motor, should something like this happen again after the bike is out of warranty.
This is of course unproven fear, but if his dealer wasn't trained to fix this sort of problems because of proprietary technology or tools or expertise, then his only choice is to pay for a swap out replacement.
I have no idea who the dealer is, and as I say I have zero Yamaha experience, but this is just flat out wrong and you're spreading bad vibes about your competition with no knowledge of the case.

The dealer could well be a huge expert, if the motor wasn't withing warranty, it could have been a £5.00 fix that was easily within the skill set.

However the motor is within warranty, so all dealers are training not to open it, send it back and get a new motor at zero cost.

So as a dealer they did what they were trained to, at no cost to the customer or the dealer.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Izzyekerslike

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
14,498
11,592
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
you're spreading bad vibes about your competition with no knowledge of the case.

The dealer could well be a huge expert, if the motor wasn't withing warranty, it could have been a £5.00 fix that was easily within the skill set.
if his dealer was a huge expert, stevieb would not have started this thread.
 
if his dealer was a huge expert, stevieb would not have started this thread.
But that's my point, this dealer has done exactly what he's trained to do.

The problem appears to be the timescale, and that's going nothing to do with eBikes, that's just organisation.

He'd have had the same issues, if the problem had been with a tyre, suspension fork etc etc. Its not about the dealers product knowledge.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
14,498
11,592
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
But that's my point, this dealer has done exactly what he's trained to do.
what is he supposed to be trained to do?
how long do you think a well trained guy needs to diagnose correctly a motor that does not turn on?
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevieb
what is he supposed to be trained to do?
how long do you think a well trained guy needs to diagnose correctly a motor that does not turn on?
\\

again... I'm guessing. But if it was Bosch, the dealer is first asked to try another battery on the problem bike, and then another display to make sure the problem is diagnosed as the motor. In this case the dealer would probably also have had to rule out the problem being any of the cables. Only then would Bosch and I'm assuming Yamaha pick up the faulty motor and send out the replacement. In bosch's case the motor needs to come back so Bosch can transfer across all the information that the brand upload onto it and send it back.

So in this case, if the dealer is small and didn't have any other Yamaha batteries in stock, they might have had to wait a few days for another customer to come in with a Yamaha bike. I don't know.
 

ttxela

Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2017
116
66
48
Cambridgeshire
Hi Paul,

Many customers don't worry too much about paying more than £100 an hour for a technician to work on their cars. How much do you think it's fair to pay for an hour to an e-bike technician to sort out problems on your bike?
Taking into account that most electrical problems are caused by water ingress, a lot of them can be avoided if customers take good care of their bikes and keep them dry.
That's a bit of a worrying statement, whilst I don't expect to be able to ride my bike through rivers I certainly don't keep it dry, I bought it to commute to work as a replacement for my car and as such it has to keep going in all weathers.

It's certainly had a few good soakings and is still going strong though so all is well so far......

Whilst I take reasonable care of it and clean it once a week or so I am not an enthusiast and often when I arrive home it's just put in the garage until the next day as I have other things to do, wet or not!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,172
22,896
That's a bit of a worrying statement, whilst I don't expect to be able to ride my bike through rivers I certainly don't keep it dry, I bought it to commute to work as a replacement for my car and as such it has to keep going in all weathers.

It's certainly had a few good soakings and is still going strong though so all is well so far......

Whilst I take reasonable care of it and clean it once a week or so I am not an enthusiast and often when I arrive home it's just put in the garage until the next day as I have other things to do, wet or not!
Waterproofing has never been a strong point of e-bikes. The second one I bought had a specific instruction in the opening pages of it's manual:

"Do not ride in the rain".
.
 
  • :D
Reactions: Steve UKLSRA
Waterproofing has never been a strong point of e-bikes. The second one I bought had a specific instruction in the opening pages of it's manual:

"Do not ride in the rain".
.
and this is one of the main reasons why the bike industry has historically been very reluctant to touch eBikes.

Now with the proper sealed units (which is why they won't let people open them! from the likes of Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc etc) the water issue has gone away, so its not a problem... and the bike industry is now happy to sell eBikes.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,172
22,896
and this is one of the main reasons why the bike industry has historically been very reluctant to touch eBikes.

Now with the proper sealed units (which is why they won't let people open them! from the likes of Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc etc) the water issue has gone away, so its not a problem... and the bike industry is now happy to sell eBikes.
Indeed, the crank units cracked the problem some while ago, I've even ridden a Panasonic one submerged in water with no ill effects then or later. Some handlebar control units can still suffer on occasions though, but thankfully that is quite rare.
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Steve UKLSRA

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
14,498
11,592
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
the water issue affects the LCD, batteries and connectors. Mid drive motors are also at risk because of the height and location of the bottom bracket, hub motors are usually far less at risk.
While water entering the bottom bracket shell is not a problem for normal bikes, for mid drive bikes, water coming in via bottom bracket ball bearings can turn into vapour inside, spread and and condense over the electronic parts, corroding them.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Now with the proper sealed units (which is why they won't let people open them! from the likes of Bosch, Yamaha, Shimano etc etc) the water issue has gone away, so its not a problem... and the bike industry is now happy to sell eBikes.
There's still reports on this forum of Bosch bikes that stopped working after use in the rain. It's not sorted yet.
 

Steve UKLSRA

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 29, 2015
318
293
Porthmadog
www.ukbusas.org
There's still reports on this forum of Bosch bikes that stopped working after use in the rain. It's not sorted yet.
..and Brose motors on the Levos...common quote is "why did they put the battery connection on the bottom"...on FB I might add
 
There's still reports on this forum of Bosch bikes that stopped working after use in the rain. It's not sorted yet.
That's not to do with the sealing of the motor though, thats people not greasing the connectors at the base of the battery when it sits in the cradle.

Sealing the motor aware and making it not user serviceable (during warranty period), solves more problems than it creates.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
That's not to do with the sealing of the motor though, thats people not greasing the connectors at the base of the battery when it sits in the cradle.

Sealing the motor aware and making it not user serviceable (during warranty period), solves more problems than it creates.
Jeez, people who spent £5000 on their ebike shouldn't need to dismantle it and modify it before being able to ride it! Most wouldn't even know about that anyway. They just buy their bike in the shop, then expect to be able to go mud-plugging the next day.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: stevieb
Jeez, people who spent £5000 on their ebike shouldn't need to dismantle it and modify it before being able to ride it! Most wouldn't even know about that anyway. They just buy their bike in the shop, then expect to be able to go mud-plugging the next day.
They can and do. They don't need to dismantle anything or modify anything before being able to ride.

The issue I'm talking about is the only water related problem I'm aware with premium centre drive eMTB. It doesn't occur from new, and the synmptom is a motor cutting out. The problem is that moisture can build up in the battery cradle caused by riding in extreme wet weather or jet washing. Its solved by simply removing the battery, cleaning the contacts and applying some grease.
 

Sherman

Pedelecer
Oct 29, 2014
141
173
Helsinki, Finland
However the motor is within warranty, so all dealers are training not to open it, send it back and get a new motor at zero cost.
What are the dealers trained to do with out-of-warranty motors? If my suspension or other components break, I'm sure my local shop can fix them and I'm happy to pay for labour and parts. But if the motor breaks?

I'm genuinely interested as my KTM is now out of warranty and the motor has already failed once (under warranty). Also, I have to say I was impressed how the seller and KTM handled the warranty replacement :)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: stevieb
What are the dealers trained to do with out-of-warranty motors? If my suspension or other components break, I'm sure my local shop can fix them and I'm happy to pay for labour and parts. But if the motor breaks?

I'm genuinely interested as my KTM is now out of warranty and the motor has already failed once. Also, I have to say I was impressed how the seller and KTM handled the warranty replacement :)
if the motor breaks the dealer is going to try to fix it like any other part on a bike. Its no more complicated than suspension forks. Its a question you need to ask the dealer really, we as KTM don't train them on anything other than the KTM bits.

I was dealing with a set of forks last week that were air sprung, hydraulic damped with electronic lock out! There was a lot that could go wrong .
 
What's that then? The frame and the decals? Everything else is proprietary isn't it? Or do you mean that you only train them how to use your parts ordering system?
We train on them on the KTM brand and selling KTM bikes. We don't train them on the components or servicing.

That training is done by the relevant brands Shimano / Rockshox / Bosch etc etc etc.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Izzyekerslike

Paul smith

Pedelecer
Mar 26, 2016
249
198
I think ebike retailers take ebikers for mugs...they must think we,re millionairs.. you pay 4- 5 grand for a bike so you must have an extra £850 floating about for a new batt...oh an if your motor conks out on your brand new 5 grand machine you have to send it back to us so we can ship it off to Germany or where ever...I'm not saying ebike dealers are raking it in just saying ebikes are way overpriced.....bit like football players.