Insult to Democracy

gray198

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 4, 2012
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1,065
The forces are gathering. They didn't get the result they wanted so have chucked their toys out of the pram and are plotting to overturn the result. Seems that people like Blair are even involved. I don't think he is a politician now is he. A lot of people voted for leave because they feel distanced from the political process. A rerun would hardly make them feel better about the situation.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
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I reckon a significant numbers will.
The reality is that Brexit will not deliver much on promises made during the campaign. Gove and Johnson now say that they did not make any specific promise. That means they did not make any promise. People who expect changes won't see any change. Some won't bother to vote next time.
 
Mar 9, 2016
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Trex
Why assume that it is for the Brexiters to change their mind|?
Perhaps the Remainers will.
Yes, I agree. Suspect remainers might get a shock. I know more have swung into brexit than remain.
But predicting anything at moment is pointless and normally wrong.
I wonder what outcome of a referendum asking if Blair should be charged with war crimes would be. Not a split decision I bet.
 
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eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
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A basic problem with democracy is that most people vote for their own personal circumstances rather than the benefit of the populace as a whole. Who can be sure their way is right, without actual hindsight of it ?

That's why Brexit and Remain makes perfectly good sense to each half of the voters, because their outlook and vision of the future is so different.
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
163
WE ARE DEFINITELY OUT
England 1 Iceland 2
country now in turmoil
...and against such tough opposition....

The Úrvalsdeild karla (Icelandic pronunciation: [ˈurvalsˌteilt ˈkʰartla], Men's Select Division) is the highest football league in Iceland. Because of the harsh winters in Iceland, it is generally played in the spring and summer (May to September). It is administered by the Football Association of Iceland (KSI) and is contested by 12 teams. At the end of the 2012–2013 season, the UEFA ranked the league 36th in Europe.

(pasted from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Úrvalsdeild )
 
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SteveRuss

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2015
536
257
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Bristol, Uk
I think we need a year for all Brexiters to see if their heart is still at the same place. would they vote with their wallet next time?
No. I don't even believe the result would be the same if the referendum was re-run tomorrow (and includes 16 year olds and up ffs). The people are now seeing the idiocy of relying on racist rhetoric and false fear mongering to advise them on which box to cross. The out voters in my area are too scared to admit they've voted Brexit. That's shocking.

We've divided ourselves as people and are now facing the loss of the Uk Union that were used to. This is the grimmest time I have ever live in.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
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I am afraid that a lot of Brexiters need proof that the grass isn't greener on the other side. Words like democracy, 'take control' are just words, unless they are part of the ruling classes. We need inflation and factory closures for proofs.
 
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mike killay

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 17, 2011
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But what if the grass is greener?
House prices falling to levels that the young once again afford, food prices falling by up to 8%
 
Mar 9, 2016
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Seems strange that Mervyn King, Mark Carney and owner of Hargreaves Lansdown all think Brexit either could or will be good for Uk economy and that much of rhetoric was scaremongering. ( read Lansdown comments in Guardian) but our experts on here know differently. Why aren't all you experts with finances running brokerage finance houses instead of posting on here. Amazing.. Wasting your time building and selling push bikes.
Flecc
Completely off topic...ofcourse Argentinian pilots launched them but those launches were successful because a team of French specialists in Argentina after April 2nd got them working.
And are folk really suggesting lowering voting age to get a result. Well instead I think your vote value should be your age. And just look at turn out %age for young? Its appalling , but again you might get a second shock. But it wont happen...fortunately.
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,669
But what if the grass is greener?
House prices falling to levels that the young once again afford, food prices falling by up to 8%
then I am happy. My daughter does not earn enough to buy a flat in London, so I am motivated. I have always liked the idea of self governance but not at any price. At the end of the day, we give power of decision to our leader in good faith that the result will be worth it, better living standard for ourselves.
My concern is that the Pound ($1.33 at the moment) seems to stabilize at around $1.35-$1.40, we are about 10% poorer until the process is completed, in two year time, either in/out or somewhere between the two.
My favourite outcome is the Norway model with a bit of brakes on immigration.
 

eHomer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 20, 2012
635
163
The increasing inference linking any significant proportion of Brexit voters with racism is an unproven assumption.

I've been vehemently opposed to racism for all my long life, and I would never consider voting UKIP or BNP under any circumstances.

I voted Brexit because of increasing concerns about the way that the European Parliament has evolved, nothing to do with racism.
 

SteveRuss

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2015
536
257
53
Bristol, Uk
But what if the grass is greener?
House prices falling to levels that the young once again afford, food prices falling by up to 8%
Then it would have been a generally good outcome as your values are very similar to mine.

At this point (and I hope this will reverse) global stock market valuations are down by over a trillion pounds. Even after amazingly holding our AAA rating through the duration of our most recent major financial crisis, it took only a few days to find out that we have been demoted to a AA rating. Increasing our borrowing rates and lowering our financial trustworthiness. That's not good...
 
Mar 9, 2016
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The credit rating was completely discredited in 2008, when it helped to create the economic catastrphe of that year. Fitch and others gave knowingly bankrupt banks highest rating possible. In industry the rating is viewed with almost contempt. Its meaningless, our lending houses said as much tho morning. Its had no effect on borrowing / lending rates.
The downturn in global markets has far more to do wit the pathetic campaign of lies and exaggerations than brexit. In effect absolutely nothing has changed. Economics is very much a confidence trick. If you shout recession, it happens. Folk in know speculate and make matters worse. Head of German banking has privately made over 200million pounds,buying gold. Ie betting on downturn. It wasn't even a gamble,had market not gone down, gold would have remained static. He,d have broken even but the effect of his selling to buy gold reduces share price and others follow suit.A cynical person might suggest he did it to produce downturn, increase price of gold and hence cause problems for uk.
All nothing at all to do with Brexit , all more to do with greedy investors and folk screaming recession, but Brexit takes the blame.Stayers campaign latch on to it and unsavvy public buy into it.

Not a sinngle contract has been lost,business gone bankrupt, higher interest rate been paid,tarrif been introduced or anything of kind to really affect markets. Just foolish people with vested interests to stay shouting about downturn. That is root cause of problem at moment, and the blame can be put squarely at our governments door for not being honest or realistic during campaign.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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This is typical of left wing politics. They are the most dangerous people on the planet, thinking that their minority ideals are above democracy. If you notice, it is the left wing groups who turn to violence when things don't go their way. I am not aware of any UKIP activists demonstrating violently on the streets, it is always some unwashed, matted haired bunch of left wing clowns that start kicking off in protest.
It won't be long before they start committing criminal damage and assault in support of their desire to overturn the democracy of Thursday's decision.
Just one problem with your rant, and that is it was a right winger who just killed a left wing politician
Whos's writing your material? it's BS
But as usual don't let the truth or facts bother you

Torys are the most damaging people on the planet, look at the damage done by the Bevy of fools on both sides of the Referendum shambles, and your beloved right wing press had helped these fools lie about the EU for a generation to cover up their blunders. causing a skewed result as the public blamed the EU for Tory incompetence
And they have even admitted that neither side bothered to plan based on a probable outcome
What kind of Cretins make so basic an error as that?
And you support them and claim to be intelligent? compared with what? the average Gnat?
To be a Tory you have to have as little intelligence as a Pheasant has road sense.
And on reflection apologies are due to the pheasants .
 
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