is this a good time to buy a new ebike......?

[dmcgoldrick]

a few years ago choice was very limited, but now there seem to be hundreds of new ebikes on the market (especially in germany) and dealers in uk have selected various models from the extensive ranges available.........
chinese bikes still appear to represent good value for money, but german bike prices now moving to 3 grand and more for what are more specialised bikes with high quality parts. the market a real mixture and very crowded from 1 to 2 grand..........

in spite of all the choice there still seems to be the issue of good steep hill climbing and 'hitting the treacle' at cut off assist point. both issues seem to me to be easily solved by manufacturers fully optimising the technology they currently have available, but why are they not doing this ????

battery size and therefore travel distance also seems to be an issue, as many new high value bikes are only offering approx 10ah battery built into frames, presumably to keep overall weight down.

so is this a good time to buy a new ebike whilst the market and the manufacturers are moving so quickly and it surely cannot be too long until a bike with very good climbing, smooth assist and an unnoticeable cut off becomes available on a bike which rides easily (without power if required) ????
only the german s type would appear to fulfil most of the requirements for hilly terrain but even then they are short on range...........and fall outside the 'wooly' legislation.

so is this a good time to buy a new ebike, or wait for what is surely just around the corner when the engineers are asked to produce what the market is really waiting for .....???????

regards

 

[BAH48]

I borrowed a Scott/Bosch from my local dealer for a week - it answers all those points except for the maximum speed issue - that would be solved with a dongle. Good range especially with the larger battery and quite easy to pedal without power. One ride I did was nearly up to the radar site on Great Dunn Fell near Cross Fell and I rode the first 8 miles with the power off to try and extend the range as it had the smaller battery.
Eventually I was defeated by the Arctic weather up there - I got fairly close to the top, but the cold seemed to affecting the battery and me! However, easy ride back with the battery having recovered.

 

[oigoi]

I think we have far more choice than we used to when it comes to choosing a bike. There are always compromises in design, brought about by the physical limitations of the technology we have at present and the desired cost of the product.
The matter of hill climbing seems to me to be in part about how far a manufacturer is prepared to push this notional idea of a 250w power limit. Years ago when electric bike makers stuck rigorously to this power limit the bikes were practically useless and hardly had enough power to haul their lead acid batteries around never mind go up a hill.
There will always be extra effort required to pedal an electric bike with the power off because of the extra weight, even if there is no drag whatsoever from the motor. My cyclone motor has a freewheel that rotates very freely but still the extra effort required to pedal the bike unassisted is quite bad (I'm not that fit really)
Bikes where the power suddenly cuts off at 15.5mph are actually giving you all the assistance they legally can. The manufacurer could make the power assist fade away as you are approaching the speed limit but then you would be pedalling a lot harder to reach 15mph
Unless we develop some new lighter battery technology or get some legislation that imposes a speed limit but no power limit, I think we are nearing the limits of our current capabilities - look at how many people have worked on developing electric bikes now and how far we have come.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

I borrowed a Scott/Bosch from my local dealer for a week - it answers all those points except for the maximum speed issue - that would be solved with a dongle. Good range especially with the larger battery and quite easy to pedal without power. One ride I did was nearly up to the radar site on Great Dunn Fell near Cross Fell and I rode the first 8 miles with the power off to try and extend the range as it had the smaller battery.
Eventually I was defeated by the Arctic weather up there - I got fairly close to the top, but the cold seemed to affecting the battery and me! However, easy ride back with the battery having recovered.

for lots of people, the bosch 250 watt restricted motor does not meet the requirements i mention, whilst the bosch 350 watt unrestricted possibly would.......adding dongles just makes the bike illegal.....
regards

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

No-one appears to have registered a speed pedelec in UK. Probably due to diffuculty in it meeting moped requirements. No speed pedelec catagory in UK, only Germany (think Switzerland also have different laws). We are looking at getting them in but only when we know they can be registered in UK and therefore legal on roads. You would also need insurance, helmet etc though.

Although fellow member posted useful link, someone has registered 30mph electric bike
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=42887&p=626945&hilit=register+an+electric+bike+uk

Have found the KTM Macina HS went down very well in a hilly part of Wales. If you have a speed pedelec that is going to reduce range as more juice will be taken out of the battery by the motor. Plenty of options with Bosch so I am sure there is a bike out there to meet your needs. Alternatively was very impressed by KTM with panasonic hub motor (we have eTour in stock). However the range on this is less and arguably less suited to very hill areas - comments on Erace model at Redbridge were very good.

 

[Jonah]

Have found the KTM Macina HS went down very well in a hilly part of Wales. .

The question is what is it like going up!

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

for lots of people, the bosch 250 watt restricted motor does not meet the requirements i mention, whilst the bosch 350 watt unrestricted possibly would.......adding dongles just makes the bike illegal.....
regards

Hi DMC,

From my experience the dongle transforms the bike (customers words not mine).
Yes the dongle is illegal to use on the road, however perfectly legal off the road.
It also means you can plug and un-plug where needs be.
Where as the 350w motor is completely illegal no matter what you do, unless of course registered for road use. However I have not come across anyone who has actually completed all the regulations to ride a 350w bosch on the road.

If you wnat to try the dongle to see how it transforms the bike, then you are welcome to register for our Off road Trail, link here - Haibike off road trail demo day - Your chance to actually try the new Haibike electric bike range off road

We can swap bikes halfway round and your welcome to try my bike with a dongle fitted off road.

Regards
Martin

 

[Eaglerider]

is this a good time to buy a new ebike......?

I think it's a bit like computers, phones or anything else these days. There will always be a new model out shortly after you make a purchase, that's for sure, whichever bike you buy.

You could wait for years, and that risk is still there. However, in the meantime, you are not getting any fun. I would venture to suggest that you resist putting it off until whenever, and get an ebike in short order, otherwise, before you know it, another summer (with any luck) will be gone, and you will still be undecided.

If you're not sure, get a cheapie, and in the meantime and get some fun in. You can't delay these things, it's later than you think!

 

[Blew it]

..Bikes where the power suddenly cuts off at 15.5mph are actually giving you all the assistance they legally can.

Not if they are powered by the Go-Swiss motor.

We used to hear a lot about this "hitting a brick wall" when approaching 15 mph stuff. The original comments about this were entirely due to the assistance ramping down at the legal maximum. On such machines, with a good tail-wind or downhill run, the rider could easily pedal the machine beyond the speed at which the assistance stopped. However, there are now hub-drive machines available which introduce a completely new meaning to "hitting a brick wall". And most of them are fitted with the direct drive Go-SWISS motors.

The GO-SWISS system is of course capable of regeneration. Unfortunately, this ability can, and is, used to set a maximum speed at which the machine can be pedalled. The three examples of Go-Swiss powered machines I have tried all demonstrated this annoying speed limiting. My own experiences showed this occured at between 17-18 mph. What happens when riding, is a rapid, silent acceleration up to 18 mph, at which point the motor switches to regen mode. The harder you try to pedal past this speed, the stronger the regen comes in....and it cannot be switched off. By the way, freewheeling down a hill is not effected, so long as the pedals are not used....you can go as fast down the hill as your nerves will allow.

The BionX system also uses regenerative braking, but it is entirely under the control of the rider...it can be switched off completely if needs be.

The new Panasonic Stroke motor fitted to the KTM E-Race "P" and others also allows control of the regenerative braking by the rider, switching it off if not needed.

I notice there is another thread running about the Epo Cube which is also powered by the Go-Swiss drive...and the owner is trying to figure out how to over-ride the speed limiting when pedalling.

As you can see, there is a whole lot of difference between the motor simply running out of steam, and deliberately stopping the rider from pedalling any faster by using the regen mode found on direct drive motors.

 

[jerrysimon]

Anytime is always good to get a new bike!

Alas though its also been a time to thin the herd and I have just sold two

Mind you the people buying them are experiencing new bike excitement.

Jerry

 

[oigoi]

As you can see, there is a whole lot of difference between the motor simply running out of steam, and deliberately stopping the rider from pedalling any faster by using the regen mode found on direct drive motors.

Hmm shortsighted design I think to assume no-one wants to pedal faster than 18mph, worth watching out for when buying a bike with a direct drive hub motor

 

[dmcgoldrick]

is this a good time to buy a new ebike......?

I think it's a bit like computers, phones or anything else these days. There will always be a new model out shortly after you make a purchase, that's for sure, whichever bike you buy.

You could wait for years, and that risk is still there. However, in the meantime, you are not getting any fun. I would venture to suggest that you resist putting it off until whenever, and get an ebike in short order, otherwise, before you know it, another summer (with any luck) will be gone, and you will still be undecided.

If you're not sure, get a cheapie, and in the meantime and get some fun in. You can't delay these things, it's later than you think!

hi eaglerider, i already have 2 ebikes and have just sold one....so have quite good experience with ebikes.
i am looking to go on longer touring trips now that i have the time, so good hill climbing and long range will be very important if i want to be on the bike for a good few hours covering up to 80 miles. yes i could get an extra battery , try and get a midday charge etc which looks to be the only compromise currently available if hilly terrain is a good part of the day. equally i would not want a mountain bike as most of the riding would be on tarmac or forest paths, canal paths etc rather than rough off roading.
we are so far behind with ebikes in the uk.....for instance in switzerland one can hire a 'swiss flyer' and there is battery exchange available on many cycling routes at convenient spots. this of course is a huge investment by the companies doing this ,but is apparently a great success for people taking week long holiday ebike trips.......

i am planning to do the coast to coast , then back across hadrians wall route , taking about a week.....this needs about 50 miles a day over some quite steep climbs.......so should i risk it with one of my current bikes or is there a great touring style ebike available which has slipped under my radar ........?

regards

 

[dmcgoldrick]

Anytime is always good to get a new bike!

Alas though its also been a time to thin the herd and I have just sold two

Mind you the people buying them are experiencing new bike excitement.

Jerry

hi jerry with all that money burning a hole in your pocket....i cant believe that you will not soon be reinvesting in another project ?????? glad to hear you managed to move on the 2 bikes ok.....
regards
regards

 

[dmcgoldrick]

Hi DMC,

From my experience the dongle transforms the bike (customers words not mine).
Yes the dongle is illegal to use on the road, however perfectly legal off the road.
It also means you can plug and un-plug where needs be.
Where as the 350w motor is completely illegal no matter what you do, unless of course registered for road use. However I have not come across anyone who has actually completed all the regulations to ride a 350w bosch on the road.

If you wnat to try the dongle to see how it transforms the bike, then you are welcome to register for our Off road Trail, link here - Haibike off road trail demo day - Your chance to actually try the new Haibike electric bike range off road

We can swap bikes halfway round and your welcome to try my bike with a dongle fitted off road.

Regards
Martin

hi martin, thanks for the offer. if i was looking for a mountain bike then even though i am in scotland i would make the effort to get down to see you. however i am more interested in a long distance touring ebike which will have great hill climbing and a long range......have not found that combination easy to find.
regards

 

[shemozzle999]

Sounds like you need bike with a clockwork motor

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Have You tried the Ezee Torq mk3. It has a large battery with option for larger, very strong motor, nice tall top gear for relaxed pedalling at high speed, 700c wheels, and it's very comfortable. It took me a bit by surprise when I tried it at Redbridge.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

hi martin, thanks for the offer. if i was looking for a mountain bike then even though i am in scotland i would make the effort to get down to see you. however i am more interested in a long distance touring ebike which will have great hill climbing and a long range......have not found that combination easy to find.
regards

Not a problem, when you say touring bike, are you after more of a trekker.. or a proper touring bike with drop bars etc??

Regards
Martin

 

[jerrysimon]

hi jerry with all that money burning a hole in your pocket....i cant believe that you will not soon be reinvesting in another project ?????? glad to hear you managed to move on the 2 bikes ok.....
regards
regards

You know what it is like, any extra money soon gets siphoned to the kids if you don't spend it quick

I have done another project but have yet to post details. A Dahon Uno (not yet listed below). Whilst not as compact as a folded Brompton, price and weight wise it blows even the Ti Brompton out the water.

It seems the only stable bike in my collection will always be a Brompton though.

Jerry

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

The question is what is it like going up!

I suppose I should have mentioned it was good on both counts. Feed back was that it worked great go up steep hills.

You are welcome to visit us to test ride any of our bikes in stock.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

Not a problem, when you say touring bike, are you after more of a trekker.. or a proper touring bike with drop bars etc??

Regards
Martin

martin, in the style of a thorn nomad but not drop handlebar......the more relaxed sit up position of flat handlebars....
regards