Mistaken is much easier to swallowI don't think you have offended anybody. We all have our views on these things and you are entitled to your views on this forum (even if on this occasion you are right)
Didn't know you could do that?
Just had my first RTA on my bike
- Thread starter dkohara
- Start date
Didn't know you could do that?
I think our posts crossed onmebike. I hadn't seen your update after viewing the photograph.
I still can't agree with your thoughts on slow moving traffic having to give way to faster traffic on the approach to a parked vehicle. You can't just force slow movers into the gutter and make them wait. It is the responsibility of the driver making the overtake manoeuvre to make sure that it is safe to do so. You can't expect everyone to pull over into your wake as you steam roller your way through the hazard.
You don't drive an Audi do you?
I think our posts crossed onmebike. I hadn't seen your update after viewing the photograph.
I still can't agree with your thoughts on slow moving traffic having to give way to faster traffic on the approach to a parked vehicle. You can't just force slow movers into the gutter and make them wait. It is the responsibility of the driver making the overtake manoeuvre to make sure that it is safe to do so. You can't expect everyone to pull over into your wake as you steam roller your way through the hazard.
You don't drive an Audi do you?
Not my thoughts, its in the highway code. I assume passing parked vehicle's is technically overtaking.
Its not a case of forcing anyone into the gutter, being on the inside of faster moving traffic they are already there and need to pull into the faster flowing traffic to manouvre around the parked vehicle's. You could say that its the slower moving traffic that must anticipate the hazard ahead and prepare for it early or get stuck behind it waiting for a break in the flow of traffic. Forcing faster moving traffic on the outside of you to slow down suddenly could cause all sorts of problems.
I suppose the simplest way of determining who has priority is the vehicle with the hazard/obstruction directly ahead is the one who should give way because it is they that need negotiate around the hazard. Its exactly the same with oncoming traffic, if the obstruction is on your side of the road you must give way to oncoming traffic.
Onmebike, your views are quite scary! Just think, there are many out there who share them and that makes me wonder whether I should be venturing out on the roads tomorrow.
No I don't think going past a parked car is over-taking - as I said you are just riding down the road and it doesn't matter whether there are parked cars or not, you have a right to do so. Anybody in front of you has automatic right of way if they are on the road, regardless of whether they are a car, motorcycle or bicycle. Do you constantly drive on other cars tails trying to over-take them? I must admit there is nothing more annoying than that sort or driver.
Be careful out there.
I can only think that we may be talking at slightly cross purposes. If we are considering a dual carriageway and cars are parked in the left hand lane, forcing slower cars into the right hand lane, then I think you are right in what you / the highway code says. However, on a single carriageway, which I believe is the type of road on which this incident occurred, then it is never the case that the driver in front has responsibility to give way to a following driver wanting to go through the hazard three abreast whilst initiating an overtake that he may or may not be able to pull off.
I've not got a copy of the highway code to hand, but I think you have been looking at dual carriageways or motorways. At least I hope you are.
Please don't take this the wrong way onmebike, but it frightens me to think that you might own a car and actually drive it in places to which the public have access.
The problem comes when the thinking that says "going past parked cars isn't overtaking" is extended a bit to "going past parked cars and cyclists isn't overtaking" which is exactly how some drivers seem to act.
In the original post the car left the flow of traffic to overtake the cyclist only to be forced back into the flow prematurely by an oncoming car. The driver may not have seen it that way though, seeing as the flow of traffic consisted of just one bike, he may well of thought as the only car going in that direction he was the flow of traffic.
In the original post the car left the flow of traffic to overtake the cyclist only to be forced back into the flow prematurely by an oncoming car. The driver may not have seen it that way though, seeing as the flow of traffic consisted of just one bike, he may well of thought as the only car going in that direction he was the flow of traffic.
Out of the blue
The frightening thing about bike accidents is that they can come completely out of the blue.
I was riding down Newmarket High Street on a quiet Sunday afternoon with no traffic about when a pickup reversed out of a side turning at far too high a speed and bounced me on my head (and helmet.) I ended up at death's door in hospital with holes being drilled in my head to relieve blood pressure between the brain (yes! there was one) and the skull.
A year later I collected a cheque for seven and a half grand by way of a payout but frankly it is money I would rather earn some other way. On average a cyclist gets either injured or killed around here about once a month. Last death was last week.
About the only thing that gets respect, I find, is riding in a dark blue outfit with a very official looking high vis yellow jacket. Drivers seem to associate it with the police or at least officialdom and either hang back or give you acres of room.
Rod
The frightening thing about bike accidents is that they can come completely out of the blue.
I was riding down Newmarket High Street on a quiet Sunday afternoon with no traffic about when a pickup reversed out of a side turning at far too high a speed and bounced me on my head (and helmet.) I ended up at death's door in hospital with holes being drilled in my head to relieve blood pressure between the brain (yes! there was one) and the skull.
A year later I collected a cheque for seven and a half grand by way of a payout but frankly it is money I would rather earn some other way. On average a cyclist gets either injured or killed around here about once a month. Last death was last week.
About the only thing that gets respect, I find, is riding in a dark blue outfit with a very official looking high vis yellow jacket. Drivers seem to associate it with the police or at least officialdom and either hang back or give you acres of room.
Rod
Now there's an idea. What about a cycle helmet with a blue light on the top?
onmebike seems to referring to a completely different set of circumstances to mine. Wasn't on a dual carriageway (never ever said I was), there was a car parked on the other side of the street (not that cars were parked in parallel on both sides of the street). Assumed i'd pulled out in front of someone (when i'd been on the same lateral for 200yds). Said I should give way to a faster outside lane (there wasn't one, up here in North East England we call it 'the other side of the road'). You say we should anticipate the hazard ahead. There wasn't a hazard ahead in my case, the hazard approached from the rear, then the side.
Please ask in future onmebike, before assuming things and condemning without the full facts.
onmebike seems to referring to a completely different set of circumstances to mine. Wasn't on a dual carriageway (never ever said I was), there was a car parked on the other side of the street (not that cars were parked in parallel on both sides of the street). Assumed i'd pulled out in front of someone (when i'd been on the same lateral for 200yds). Said I should give way to a faster outside lane (there wasn't one, up here in North East England we call it 'the other side of the road'). You say we should anticipate the hazard ahead. There wasn't a hazard ahead in my case, the hazard approached from the rear, then the side.
Please ask in future onmebike, before assuming things and condemning without the full facts.
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Passing parked cars would be seen as the road narrowing, however, Overtaking is detailed in the HWC here:
Overtaking (162-169) : Directgov - Travel and transport
and....
Road users requiring extra care (204-225) : Directgov - Travel and transport
Overtaking (162-169) : Directgov - Travel and transport
and....
Road users requiring extra care (204-225) : Directgov - Travel and transport
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I'm not talking about the narrow residential road highlighted in this thread and you can check my claims in the highway code, section 133 and 167.
As you say everyone has a right to use the road, on that we agree. But, there are proper procedure's to follow. Whether the obstruction ahead is a single parked car, road works, stationary bus at a bus stop or anything else that involve's slower moving vehicle's having to pull out into the flow of faster moving traffic, they simply shoudn't pull out forcing the faster moving traffic to slow or brake suddenly. Its the same for stationary vehicle's pulling out into the flow of moving traffic, they wait for a break in the flow of traffic.
Yes, many drivers do slow to allow you into their lane but that isn't law.
No I don't drive on other cars tails nor have I ever run into the back of another vehicle in 44yrs of driving. I only overtake on dual carriageways, motorways or where slow moving vehicle's are holding up the flow of traffic. I've passed every test taken including cycling proficiency, motorcycle and car first time and would be happy to take them all again.
There is an important point here.
Those of us who have done advanced driver training of any sort will recall being berated by our (usually) sergeant police drivers telling us that almost NOTHING on the road happens 'all of a sudden' or 'without warning'. (Exceptions might include being struck on the head by a meteorite.)
Thus, as a following driver, seeing
a) a line of parked cars on the left, and
b) a cyclist on our side of the road approaching those cars,
a good driver will ANTICIPATE what is almost certainly going to happen next.
Add a
c) car coming towards us, not to mention
d) parked cars on the OTHER side of the road
and even the doziest driver could probably work out the next scene.
Similarly, a good cyclist would read the possible scenario in the same way, and plan his reaction to the forthcoming 'hazard' accordingly.
This might mean moving out into 'primary' so that the following car had no choice but to slow down and wait, or, in exceptional circumstances, to stop before the parked cars and wait. On rare occasions I have done the latter, particularly if my mirror has told me that the following vehicle was a skip lorry, for example, being driven too fast!
Oh for wide roads and intelligent road users!
Allen.
Those of us who have done advanced driver training of any sort will recall being berated by our (usually) sergeant police drivers telling us that almost NOTHING on the road happens 'all of a sudden' or 'without warning'. (Exceptions might include being struck on the head by a meteorite.)
Thus, as a following driver, seeing
a) a line of parked cars on the left, and
b) a cyclist on our side of the road approaching those cars,
a good driver will ANTICIPATE what is almost certainly going to happen next.
Add a
c) car coming towards us, not to mention
d) parked cars on the OTHER side of the road
and even the doziest driver could probably work out the next scene.
Similarly, a good cyclist would read the possible scenario in the same way, and plan his reaction to the forthcoming 'hazard' accordingly.
This might mean moving out into 'primary' so that the following car had no choice but to slow down and wait, or, in exceptional circumstances, to stop before the parked cars and wait. On rare occasions I have done the latter, particularly if my mirror has told me that the following vehicle was a skip lorry, for example, being driven too fast!
Oh for wide roads and intelligent road users!
Allen.
Yes, anticipation always tends to work in your favour, and prime riding position is great, but when the guy commits himself to get past you by driving on the opposite side of the road, then moves back to squeeze your pips, there's not a lot of 'road command' you can do without making yourself even more vulnerable. Pushing him further onto the wrong side of the road would have just resulted in a more violent side swipe as he tried to avoid the oncoming car. I had slowed down anyway because I had a junction coming up behind a white van parked on my left, and I couldn't see beyond the van. I was braking to try to get him past me, but he decelerated at the same rate and moved across into me. Thankfully, speeds were low, but he could easily have run over my arm or something as I came off. Once I knew the collision was inevitable, reducing the speed of it was the only thing I could do.
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I agree with most of what you say but my comments aren't restricted to dual carriagways and motorways that are separated from oncoming traffic by a central reservation. I also include the average main road where there are two or more lanes in either direction separated by a central white line.
Looking at it from another perpective, say the obstruction is in the outside lane, maybe roadworks or a broken down vehicle and the traffic in the outside lane has to move across to the inside lane to pass the obstruction.
The inside lane have priority in this scenario and its the outside lane traffic joining them that shouldn't force their way over. In practice most drivers give way and it works out that alternate cars from both lane's filter through.
A question for you. Two lanes in either direction separated by a central white line converge into single lane's in either direction still separated by the same central white line to pass under a railway bridge. Does the nearside or outside lane have priority? The reason I'm asking is this is a situation close to where I live and many drivers don't seem to know the answer as there's frequent disagreements there.
Oh for the almost empty roads that were the norm when I first rode bicycles in 1946 and first road motorbikes in 1950. World War 2 had got rid of most of the pre-war vehicles by requisition for war needs and all post war production was for export to pay off our war debts.
Imagine riding a motorbike as I did once in the daytime from Bournemouth to Southampton for 25 miles through the New Forest and not seeing one other vehicle on the road.
Those really were the days to be mobile.
.
Surely neither, the expectation is that the traffic blends one from each lane in turn, the vehicle slightly leading any pair having precedence. That may not be referred to in any law, but it is what the police expect to be practiced and it's a matter of common courtesy anyway.
Personally I never have a problem since I'm happy to give way to anyone and always give certain priorities like public transport first. I never worry about anyone coming up behind very fast, I just let them pass since it's not for me to judge why they are going fast, that's their business.
.
In answer to your question Onmebike. Where a dual carriageway ends and returns to a single carriageway, it is the driver in the right hand lane who is responsible for adjusting his speed to that of the slower moving vehicles in the left hand lane and then finding a safe gap to blend into that lane. Never do you just hammer it down the outside lane and barge into the left lane at the last minute expecting everyone to give way.
I'm relieved that Onmebike is talking about multi-lane carriageways when he mentions slower vehicles leading a line of traffic giving way to faster vehicles wanting to overtake. For example, if you are travelling at 40 mph in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway which has a 60 mph and you encounter an obstruction in the left hand lane. Of course, the slower vehicle in the left hand lane must not just blindly pull across into the path of the faster traffic in the right hand lane. If necessary, the slower car should be prepared to stop until a safe gap appears.
Take the same situation on a single carriageway. The single lane is blocked ahead meaning that traffic has to move close to or over the centre White line. In this case, the traffic should, "flow" around the obstruction at the pace of the slowest vehicle. If some ******* in an Audi then decides that they can overtake the obstruction and slow vehicle simultaneously, by going three abreast down the road, then the onus does not fall on the slower car to give way or make room for Audi Man.
Please, Onmebike, tell me that this us what you are thinking too.
If you are on a push bike, it might be best not to try and enforce this principle too vigorously. You nay have the moral high ground but you may also be in hospital with a Continental Eco Contact tread pattern embossed into your face.
I'm relieved that Onmebike is talking about multi-lane carriageways when he mentions slower vehicles leading a line of traffic giving way to faster vehicles wanting to overtake. For example, if you are travelling at 40 mph in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway which has a 60 mph and you encounter an obstruction in the left hand lane. Of course, the slower vehicle in the left hand lane must not just blindly pull across into the path of the faster traffic in the right hand lane. If necessary, the slower car should be prepared to stop until a safe gap appears.
Take the same situation on a single carriageway. The single lane is blocked ahead meaning that traffic has to move close to or over the centre White line. In this case, the traffic should, "flow" around the obstruction at the pace of the slowest vehicle. If some ******* in an Audi then decides that they can overtake the obstruction and slow vehicle simultaneously, by going three abreast down the road, then the onus does not fall on the slower car to give way or make room for Audi Man.
Please, Onmebike, tell me that this us what you are thinking too.
If you are on a push bike, it might be best not to try and enforce this principle too vigorously. You nay have the moral high ground but you may also be in hospital with a Continental Eco Contact tread pattern embossed into your face.
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