justin beba.... or just out of beba?

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

http://www.beba-online.co.uk/British_Electric_Bicycle_Association_-_BEBA/Home.html

what are peoples opinions on this?

I notice some of the retailers who post on here are members, and some brands.

is it worth joining? I know what it claims to do, but what does it actually do?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers
Col

 

[Jimod]

Only you will know if it's worth your while joining. Ask BEBA what they do and what they want you to do. Having BEBA can't be bad for the future of electric bikes. Not being in BEBA doesn't make you good or bad.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

was just looking for some input from anyone who is a member really, or has perhaps been a member in the past.

Looking at their website, some things like this:

http://www.beba-online.co.uk/British_Electric_Bicycle_Association_-_BEBA/Press/Press.html

haven't been updated in over 2 years which doesn't fill us with confidence, but then we would like to try to be part of something like this, if it is actually doing some good.

But they are never going to give an honest answer, so I was hoping for some impartial discussion on here.

 

[flecc]

BEBA have represented us in discussions with the DfT on the forthcoming change in e-bike laws and kept us fully informed about that. Among their representations was an attempt to increase the permitted power, but scuppered by bodies representing motorcycles and ordinary bikes like the since disbanded ETRA, who are opposed to e-bike inroads into what they see as their markets.

More successful was their keeping throttles as a consideration for inclusion in the forthcoming law, something that probably wouldn't have happened without them.

Most importantly, they secured a waiver for the use of 250 watts despite the UK's EAPC 200 watt limit.

They have also been active in thwarting attempts by the police to unfairly prosecute e-bikers, something I've assisted them in to good effect.

They instigated a lobbyist, Lord Laird, in the House of Lords to ensure our interests are represented in parliament and he has been active in that on several occasions.

BEBA also had some e-bikes at the Houses of Parliament being tried out by a number of members including from the All Party Cycling Group.

David Miall of Wisper has been one of the most active members, but his transfers of production to Germany followed by the merging of operations with Freego have kept him very busy. Hence the limited BEBA activity just lately.

The current members would no doubt love to have KTM Bike Industries as members.

I am a supporter of the initiative since it cannot do harm but certainly can be good as an industry co-ordinator.

 

[jackhandy]

[quote="flecc, post: 207092, member: 3"

I am a supporter of the initiative since it cannot do harm but certainly can be good as an industry co-ordinator.[/quote]

They can be a tad restrictive though:
Apparently beba wanted the Eden Project ebike show exhibitors restricted to beba- members only.
Fortunately they were unable to attract enough interest & the organisers threw the show open to all.

According to a reliable source.

 

[flecc]

They can be a tad restrictive though:
Apparently beba wanted the Eden Project ebike show exhibitors restricted to beba- members only.
Fortunately they were unable to attract enough interest & the organisers threw the show open to all.

According to a reliable source.

The rules are made by the BEBA members, so the best way to change them is, as ever, to join.

 

[trex]

8 manufacturers + 3 retailers, none of them is biggish, hardly representative of the market place. This forum has more than twice the trade membership.

 

[flecc]

8 manufacturers + 3 retailers, none of them is biggish, hardly representative of the market place. This forum has more than twice the trade membership.

And the answer is the same as I gave above, join.

And as for "biggish", you might be surprised. Who in the British e-bike scene would you regard as "biggish"?

As Frank Curran of Powabyke once remarked, this forum's membership doesn't in any way represent the larger market.

 

[Croxden]

Only large by eating to many pies.

 

[trex]

And the answer is the same as I gave above, join.

And as for "biggish", you might be surprised. Who in the British e-bike scene would you regard as "biggish"?

As Frank Curran of Powabyke once remarked, this forum's membership doesn't in any way represent the larger market.

biggish:
1) accel
2) tesco, halfords, 50 cycles, kudos, fwg, woosh, cyclamatic, powacycle.
I estimate that the combined market share of this group (2) is about 12,000 to 15,000 out of 30,000 sales a year.

 

[flecc]

I take it that by fwg you mean Freego-Wisper? They are both members of BEBA and both very successful in the retail market as you intimate.

Halfords are in no way biggish in e-bikes, their attempts to be so have failed. Cyclamatic aren't a company. SportsHQ and Tesco have both only been in the e-bike market intermittently, and I don't suppose they belong to the trade associations for most of the very many products they sell. That's not what such multi-line retailers do since it would become a full time occupation to maintain any involvement. I don't think they can properly be considered e-bike dealers in a trade involvement sense.

That leaves Kudos, Woosh and Powacycle in your list who could be BEBA members, sharing very much less than that estimated 12,000. It would be good if they joined, but I know Kudos is very opposed to that.

 

[trex]

beba (in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king) has no success story to tell and does not have marketing muscles.
It pretends to represent the view of the trade but actually polarized on a small sector of Chinese bike importers selling through small dealerships.

 

[flecc]

P.S. to my above post. I see you've added Accell who are not eligible for membership of a British trade association . They are a Dutch group of international bicycle companies who don't operate as a seller of e-bikes, only their companies do that, none of them British.

I don't understand your attitude, though it's typically British in the way it attacks anyone who attempts to do anything positive. The cause of every one of your criticisms rests with those who don't join, not with BEBA.

BEBA doesn't pretend to represent the industry, it wishes to and meanwhile does so in the absence of anyone else doing it.

 

[trex]

...
BEBA doesn't pretend to represent the industry, it wishes to and meanwhile does so in the absence of anyone else doing it.

This is from their website:

BEBA is an industry association to promote the use of Electric Assisted Bicycles. Efforts will be focussed on educating consumers about the benefits of electric bicycles, giving them an ‘industry stamp’ of accreditation and recognition. BEBA are also to inject confidence into the market to help manufacturers secure retail outlets and ultimately increase sales.

it's the tone of 'we know' that makes me puke.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Wow, such negativity!

BEBA are a group of businesses involved in electric bicycles who have come together to try and make a difference in the market.

Thanks Flecc for your support and for listing our achievements so far, we are still very active in national Government. For instance, Mark Loveridge from Hero is currently working to move money available to the buyers of electric cars to buyers of electric bicycles and again is having success in this massively tough environment. I am in communication with Government who are currently considering changing the rules regarding the transport of electric bikes with batteries installed, these changes will mean that electric bikes would, unlike at the moment, have to be transported as dangerous goods when the battery is installed, we believe this could add in the region of £100.00 to the prices of all electric bicycles.

We at BEBA are passionate about the industry, we work very hard, unpaid, covering our own expenses, behind the scenes to make everyone's electric bicycle experience better. EVERYONE benefits, not only BEBA members.

The web pages are currently being upgraded and will list all current members. The new site will go live after our AGM in two weeks time, as a taster new members include Bosch, who we feel are quite big in the market? This work is being undertaken by Ralph Coulson from Batribike, completely unpaid and in his own time.

BEBA is also affiliated with the Bicycle Association of Great Britain so all BAGB members are now involved. I feel that gives BEBA a very strong voice.

Maybe those who don't understand what we are doing, could find out a little more about BEBA before condemning us? I would welcome enquiries from anyone and everyone wanting further information. We did offer to completely sponsor the EDEN project event, maybe that was a mistake?

If anyone would like to join in with all the hard work being undertaken on behalf of the whole industry you would be most welcome, although as full members we do contribute £400.00 a year into the pot to pay for our DGSA etc. Retail members fees are only £49.00. I understand this may put some people off.

Best regards

David

 

[trex]

Dave,

You are de facto BEBA rep on this forum, your recent posts about throttle and batteries although somewhat justified, still overall instill F.U.D. to members of the forum, especially self builders like myself. No wonder why I dislike BEBA.

 

[flecc]

beba has no success story to tell

Simply not true, Just one of their achievements, the 250 watts waiver is a huge success. Many others had tried previously to get the power anomaly cleared up but the DfT always stubbornly refused to rule, saying that it was a matter for the courts to interpret.

That would have meant certain conviction since the UK law was and is perfectly clear. The consequences of a conviction could be very serious with multiple offences involved. For anyone with a driving licence, code IN10 offence of driving uninsured means 6 to 8 points on their licence and with code LC10 also possibly involved adding a further 3 to 6 points could mean an instant driving ban, even for a clean licence holder.

BEBA's successful involvement in preventing a prosecution of a 250 watt owner was vital. The traffic officer concerned was being strongly backed by his force and with the DfT not ruling against them when the force approached them, the door would have been open for a prosecution spree. Anyone who knows anything about police activity will know that any easy prosecution avenue found is soon widely exploited.

We all owe BEBA a debt of gratitude for their involvement in obtaining a later DfT guarantee of no prosecution for 250 watt rated e-bikes. This covers us until the law is amended in 2016 or later.

 

[trex]

so Colin, you've read the posts, now any thoughts?

 

[flecc]

Dave,

You are de facto BEBA rep on this forum, your recent posts about throttle and batteries although somewhat justified, still overall instill F.U.D. to members of the forum, especially self builders like myself. No wonder why I dislike BEBA.

Trex, please forgive me for quoting a post you directed to David, but I first wanted to thank you for clearing up why you dislike BEBA so much, something which had been puzzling me.

I don't think self-builders need have anything to fear, and I point to the UK's kit car industry in that connection. Despite no organisation to represent kit car makers, the DfT have treated them very generously, exempting them from all the more onerous requirements on major car makers.

I see no reason why the DfT would have any different an attitude to home builders, especially as e-bikes are not regarded as motor vehicles in law but just as bicycles. Therefore I'm confident that any possible attempt by BEBA to institute discriminatory measures would be resisted, and very much doubt BEBA would even be interested in this small sector.

After all, in the mainland EU where EN15194 is fully in force throughout, home builders are very active and the testing requirements of that law do not apply to them.

Therefore I think F.U.D is not necessary, given such precedents.

 

[JuicyBike]

http://www.beba-online.co.uk/British_Electric_Bicycle_Association_-_BEBA/Home.html

what are peoples opinions on this?

I notice some of the retailers who post on here are members, and some brands.

is it worth joining? I know what it claims to do, but what does it actually do?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers
Col

Hi Col
What "it" does is exactly what the BEBA members choose to do, and by being a part of BEBA you can have as much say as any other member does in deciding what we do.
Benefits are many, from having access to advice and backing during general trading to hearing the latest industry news first, securing better deals by negotiating as a group and even being party to and influential in the process of lawmaking.
I've never come across a more cooperative and supportive group of competing company directors and self-interested individuals in my many previous walks of life. The focus of BEBA I have witnessed whilst being a member has been totally on promoting the safe use and wider uptake of electric bicycles.
The board, of which for the past year I have been a member, pay the same fees as other members and get the same benefits. We are elected each year at our AGM and then carry out our roles without any payment or special privileges, save for the privilege of representing e-bikers in general.
Ralph for instance has spent many long unpaid hours developing the new website, mainly because of the exactingly fair way content has been agreed. So fairness does have a downside, but I'm told the new site is to go live any day now.
I'm sure you'd appreciate becoming a member Col and I'm really disappointed by the few negative views expressed in this thread.
I don't see one piece of hard evidence that BEBA has ever had any detrimental effect on any e-biker and am quite flabbergasted that anyone could hold such a view. For what it's worth, given my involvement, BEBA membership is for me a sign of a company's true commitment and passion for electric bikes and should give confidence to those thinking of dealing with that same company.