KT E Bike conversion kit

[madhouse]

Hi

Bit of a long shot and I was hoping a forum like this might be able to help. A somewhat ebike related question in that I'm looking to find and source an Ebike kit for a wheelchair.

A similar set up uses one of these controllers from KT but i have been unable to find a direct example online. The model number i have is missing some digits i have KT/36/48ZWSR-****23XL

It is paried with a throtle and display controller, battery and finally a 12inch hub motor wheel.

Just wondering if anyone had any idea how i might be able to replicate the equipment so i can complete the set up on my own.

 

[saneagle]

You can use any standard KT controller. It doesn't care about what size wheel you have. I can't remember whether wheel size goes down to 12" to get the correct speed display, but if it doesn't, you can use 24" and tell it you have double the number of magnets in the speed sensor to get it correct..

What you need is a 17A 36/48v one. You can get them with the waterproof connectors, like you showed, or the block connectors, which I prefer because they're just as good but easier to test when something doesn't work right. There are two different motor cables too, which you have to buy separately. One has the waterproof connector on both ends, the other has a block connector for the hall wires and bullets on the other end to suit the block connector version of the controller.

 

[thelarkbox]

For a manual and instructions on set up you need to search for the display manual and not the controller ..

That looks like a ktlcd-05 to me ? if so THIS! might be what you need..

the manual is in Chenglish, so take your time read and re read, and if still confused post here some of the chaps here can recite the settings in their sleep..

 

[Nealh]

Yes as has already been said nay of the KT' s will work the end 23xl designator is just a cutomer supply number and has no meaning unless the controller uses custom settings specific to the supplied customer.

Most of us buy form topbikekit .com or Aliexpress stores , one can also buy the same items from UK ebay or amazon at approx. twice the price.

 

[madhouse]

Thanks for the comments.

I suppose it is possible the company have had the system customised for them. Obviously it's not being used as a bike. And I think they limit it to lower spee as it is being used on a chair.

Thanks

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for the comments.

I suppose it is possible the company have had the system customised for them. Obviously it's not being used as a bike. And I think they limit it to lower spee as it is being used on a chair.

Thanks

Why do you think it's customised? It all looks pretty standard including the wheel. The speeed would be limited by the size of the wheel, which would spin at the same rpm as an ebike, but give half the speed due to its size, so around 8 mph from a 201 rpm motor or 10 mph from 260 rpm.

12 inch compact brushless geared scooter hub motor

Model: BS90Price: USD115 The compact 12 inch scooter hub motor, geared, brushless dc with hall sensors, dropout size 85mm. freewheel. It is very good for small dropout size electric scoot…

www.uumotor.com

 

[thelarkbox]

Sorry I misunderstood, and though you had the kit and were looking for aid in setting up.

If you can source a suitably sized hub motor and wheel, (see above?) . the suggested seller 'topbikekit' will be able to provide everything else. as will ebay and amazon if you dont mind paying the extra for a quicker delivery.

While im sure there is 'special' wheelchair kit available as anything with a clinical tie can charge a huge profit premium everything you need is also standard ebike kit.

Find a suitable wheel/motor and match it with a suitable kt controller (match voltage and power expectations (15-17a peak current) should be suitable for a 250w motor.. and select the speed controller most suitable, trigger, twist grip etc..

Emergency or brake cut off sensors/input for the controller might need consideration if the chair has not got a brake system fitted?

 

[AndyBike]

Are you intending on derestricting it ?

 

[Nealh]

As said any speed limit will be decided by the wheel size vs rpm winding , speed can also be in the settings of the lcd display but in this case the small wheel size and it's rpm winding for the scooter usage is likely the binding reason.

 

[madhouse]

While im sure there is 'special' wheelchair kit available as anything with a clinical tie can charge a huge profit premium everything you need is also standard ebike kit.

Emergency or brake cut off sensors/input for the controller might need consideration if the chair has not got a brake system fitted?

Your not wrong about the price tag that get attached to these type of chairs. The office kit to purchase is over £3000 which covered all the bits you need as well as bracket for the bettery. It is one reason I'm seeing if i could do something similar for a fraction of the price.

As for break the wheel chair has them a set of hydraulic disc brakes.

This is the full chair a really good bit of kit if you can afford thousands.

 

[madhouse]

Why do you think it's customised? It all looks pretty standard including the wheel. The speeed would be limited by the size of the wheel, which would spin at the same rpm as an ebike, but give half the speed due to its size, so around 8 mph from a 201 rpm motor or 10 mph from 260 rpm.

12 inch compact brushless geared scooter hub motor

Model: BS90Price: USD115 The compact 12 inch scooter hub motor, geared, brushless dc with hall sensors, dropout size 85mm. freewheel. It is very good for small dropout size electric scoot…

www.uumotor.com

Not suree, new to all this and not really sure what I'm doing. So from that point of view don;t want to buy stuff that is not suitable. Also don;t want to make a dangerous chair for my son.

I have the chair already just looking at option for the E kit and trying to see if it would save money

Ball park figure what would it cost for
Motor
Controller
Throttle
LCD display

Am i looking at thousands or hundreds

 

[madhouse]

12 inch compact brushless geared scooter hub motor

Model: BS90Price: USD115 The compact 12 inch scooter hub motor, geared, brushless dc with hall sensors, dropout size 85mm. freewheel. It is very good for small dropout size electric scoot…

www.uumotor.com

This gave me some idea of what to search for in terms of pre made kits. You can get the third wheel addons that typically fit to the front of wheelchair. The though occured to me one of these kits minus the frame could work by mounting it on the rear.

I'll keep looking

 

[thelarkbox]

Ball park
motor (£150)
KT brand Controller + display (Upto £100)
Brake sensors (£20-30)
throttle (£10+)
leads (£30+)
Battery £250-600+? depending on range requirements
cable ties epoxy heat shrink, spiral wrap etc (£25?)

And a fair bit of bodging but the cycle style of the chair pictured would lend itself to an ebike kit for brake sensors and perhaps a trigger throttle.

Find a motor you like the look of and post the details, we can point you at a suitable controller that will give you full configuration access to limit power speed etc..

with the motor and controller selected the optimum battery size can be extrapolated from your range requirements and an indication of the mass to be moved, then you can consider battery mounting options..
be mindful ebike battery adverts expect 50%+ input from pedaling when they give range metrics..

Go for it..

 

[madhouse]

Ball park
motor (£150)
KT brand Controller + display (Upto £100)
Brake sensors (£20-30)
throttle (£10+)
leads (£30+)
Battery £250-600+? depending on range requirements
cable ties epoxy heat shrink, spiral wrap etc (£25?)

And a fair bit of bodging but the cycle style of the chair pictured would lend itself to an ebike kit for brake sensors and perhaps a trigger throttle.

Find a motor you like the look of and post the details, we can point you at a suitable controller that will give you full configuration access to limit power speed etc..

with the motor and controller selected the optimum battery size can be extrapolated from your range requirements and an indication of the mass to be moved, then you can consider battery mounting options..
be mindful ebike battery adverts expect 50%+ input from pedaling when they give range metrics..

Go for it..

Thanks so much for this may give it a go. So more research needed and i need to find out how wide the drop outs are on the wheel mount.

Yet more questions what is a brake sensor kit " an ebike kit for brake sensors and perhaps a trigger throttle."

IThe kits they fit to the chair can be in 2 forms. One they have a grip throttle or 2 a thumb throttle. I'm not aware of any sensors used. Eg the power can be used with out any user input in terms of pushing the chair. And no sensors on the brakes.

Also the motor they use provides no braking thats all done with the disc brakes and the user reducing the throttle.

Thanks again for all the help

 

[thelarkbox]

Brake sensors are just simple sensors sensitive to magnetic fields, you glue one to the static part of your brake lever assembly, and on the lever itself next to the sensor you glue a magnet, pulling the brake moves the magnet away from the sensor and triggers the controller (when plugged in) to cut off the motor power to stop you braking against the motor. youtube will inform you better
brake sensor kit is simply 2 x sensors, magnets ,some glue, and a few cable ties
throttles can stick braking against the motor will impact stopping distance and even if not part of an official wheelchair kit brake cut off sensors would be Very worthwhile using imho.

a trigger throttle could also be described as a thumb throttle, someone @guerney iirc found a nice metal one that looked like a trigger ....

 

[guerney]

a trigger throttle could also be described as a thumb throttle, someone @guerney iirc found a nice metal one that looked like a trigger ....

It's plastic. I keep it in the bike toolkit for emergencies. Haven't used it on the road, but I like the push forward action, prefer it to the long travel thumb push down type. Also seems more waterproof. I replaced the hex bolt with knurled thumb bolt, for quick handlebar attachment.

 

[saneagle]

KT controller, throttle and LCD are about £80. The throttle signal is 1v to 4v, so you can easily make your own or use any standard analogue device (joystick, potentiometer, voltage devider, etc.) that would give you that. You don't need a KT if you don't use pedal assist, neither do you need an LCD unless you want to set the max speed. A cheap controller with throttle would be about £20 or £40 with an LCD.

The motor's £140:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/L-faster-Electric-Bicycle-Wheel-Scooter/dp/B07FXGYTWB?th=1

That motor comes as a kit in that listing.

The listing says 24v/36v/48v 410 rpm. Assuming that the 410 rpm is for 48v (you need to check), the actual speed at 24v will be 7/13 (cells) x 12/26 (wheel size) x 410/201 ( rpm for 15 mph with 26" wheel) x 15 mph = 7.6 mph, and at 36v it'll be 10 cells instead of 7, so 10.8 mph, and 14 mph at 48v.

For a normal bike with 26" wheels, the speed is 15 mph when the wheel turns at 201 rpm. The motor maximum rpm is proportional to voltage. Voltage depends on the number of cells in the battery, so any motor will spin 13/10 times the 36v speed when run at 48v or 13/7 times the 24v speed.

 

[lenny]

The throttle signal is 1v to 4v, so you can easily make your own

https://endless-sphere.com/sphere/threads/cop-proof-throttle.94112/

 

[madhouse]

The motor's £140:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/L-faster-Electric-Bicycle-Wheel-Scooter/dp/B07FXGYTWB?th=1

That motor comes as a kit in that listing.

The listing says 24v/36v/48v 410 rpm. Assuming that the 410 rpm is for 48v (you need to check), the actual speed at 24v will be 7/13 (cells) x 12/26 (wheel size) x 410/201 ( rpm for 15 mph with 26" wheel) x 15 mph = 7.6 mph, and at 36v it'll be 10 cells instead of 7, so 10.8 mph, and 14 mph at 48v.

Thanks for this link it looks good.

 

[madhouse]

Just wanted to say thanks again for the advice from this form.

Some really interesting ideas that could well save me a fortune and perhaps make a better solution.

I like the brake sensor idea that was suggest.

I also read around that some of these can use a cruse control so you don;t have to keep your thumb on the throttle. THat sort of think tied in with a brake sensor could actualy work quite well in the case of my son's condition.