Legal ebike?

[hoppy]

Some of our most expert members say that there are no legal ebikes!
Is this really true and if so why?Is it impossible to make a truly legal one?

 

[flecc]

There are a number of reasons why e-bikes don't comply. One is that we still have in law the 1983 EAPC regulations which specify maximum continuous power of 200 watts, and the test for that being a BS one which really means 200 watts. Most are of course 250 watts rated now and capable of very much more, and there is an informal waiver from the DfT to use them, but the courts won't recognise that, they are only concerned with the law.

Another is that all e-bikes should in law have a manufacturer's plate (Like a VIN plate) affixed to the bike (not the motor) stating the motor power in watts, the battery voltage and the bike's weight. None do.

Most of our ebikes roughly follow EU law which we will eventually be largely adopting, but the EU law does not permit throttle control, making many illegal even under that law!

There's more, but I won't bore you.
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[hoppy]

There are a number of reasons why e-bikes don't comply. One is that we still have in law the 1983 EAPC regulations which specify maximum continuous power of 200 watts, and the test for that being a BS one which really means 200 watts. Most are of course 250 watts rated now and capable of very much more, and there is an informal waiver from the DfT to use them, but the courts won't recognise that, they are only concerned with the law.

Another is that all e-bikes should in law have a manufacturer's plate (Like a VIN plate) affixed to the bike (not the motor) stating the motor weight, the battery voltage and the bike's weight. None do.

Most of our ebikes roughly follow EU law which we will eventually be largely adopting, but the EU law does not permit throttle control, making many illegal even under that law!

There's more, but I won't bore you.
.

Thanks,flecc. Would our courts not accept an EN 15194 certificate as proof of EU legality?

 

[JohnCade]

So you could think that on the you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb principle, you might just as well go OTT like some here and end up with an unregistered electric motor bike.

Except that will probably get you nicked and banned when plod starts to crack down as they are bound to if these funny bikes proliferate. So the position is that unlike pregnancy it's possible to be slightly illegal?

 

[flecc]

Thanks,flecc. Would our courts not accept an EN 15194 certificate as proof of EU legality?

They wouldn't even consider something that isn't a part of UK law at present. The only conformity they would accept is with current UK legislation. In practice that doesn't matter since the DfT have agreed with police forces that no action will be taken against those using 250 watt motors since they will be included in future legislation.

But of course that doesn't make them legal, it's just a "blind eye" guarantee.

 

[flecc]

So you could think that on the you might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb principle, you might just as well go OTT like some here and end up with an unregistered electric motor bike.

Except that will probably get you nicked and banned when plod starts to crack down as they are bound to if these funny bikes proliferate. So the position is that unlike pregnancy it's possible to be slightly illegal?

That's exactly it John. The police have more than enough to do already without getting involved in the obscure legal areas of a tiny minority matter. The only attempts were made by a couple of traffic officers who knew more than most about the law, but representations by BEBA* with some assistance from me resulted in the present acceptance of 250 watts.

* BEBA = British Electric Bike Association

 

[trex]

legal bikes should have 36V 10A controllers, they'll pass automatically. Who is going to be happy with that?

 

[hoppy]

There are a number of reasons why e-bikes don't comply. One is that we still have in law the 1983 EAPC regulations which specify maximum continuous power of 200 watts, and the test for that being a BS one which really means 200 watts. Most are of course 250 watts rated now and capable of very much more, and there is an informal waiver from the DfT to use them, but the courts won't recognise that, they are only concerned with the law.

Another is that all e-bikes should in law have a manufacturer's plate (Like a VIN plate) affixed to the bike (not the motor) stating the motor weight, the battery voltage and the bike's weight. None do.

Most of our ebikes roughly follow EU law which we will eventually be largely adopting, but the EU law does not permit throttle control, making many illegal even under that law!

There's more, but I won't bore you.
.

It is surprising that Kudos, Woosh, Wisper et al would appear then to be selling bikes that cannot be used legally on UK roads. Why do they claim EN15194 makes them legally useable here?

 

[trex]

What worries me is the power race leading eventually to fatal accidents.
36V 15A controllers ought to be enough for most of us, crank drives of similar power for those facing big hills, anything above this needs to be classified as mopeds.
Cyclotricity announced 1000W road legal bikes. Perhaps they can come here and explain the EN15194 situation to members.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Department for Transport have said that all these bikes are allowed. They have granted a sort of concession. The police won't prosecute you for riding one on the road. The law in the UK regarding ebikes is in a complete mess. Hopefully, it'll be sorted out soon.

If anybody questions the legality of your EN15194 certified bike, you could probably take it to the European Court of Human Rights. Nobody has needed to do that yet.

 

[hoppy]

What worries me is the power race leading eventually to fatal accidents.
36V 15A controllers ought to be enough for most of us, crank drives of similar power for those facing big hills, anything above this needs to be classified as mopeds.
Cyclotricity announced 1000W road legal bikes. Perhaps they can come here and explain the EN15194 situation to members.

All our insurance is invalid too as we are riding unregistered motor vehicles. That is serious!

 

[EddiePJ]

Officer, perhaps you would be kind enough to inform me as to why it is that you consider my bike to be illegal, when police forces the length and breadth of the country are being issued with, and have the use of, exactly the same bikes?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Didn't the Prime Minister use one on the road too.

 

[trex]

eventually, trading standards will get involved then we'll have the clarification we need.
European Union directive 2002/24/EC exempts vehicles with the following definition from type approval: "Cycles with pedal assistance which are equipped with an auxiliary electric motor having a maximum continuous rated power of 0.25 kW, of which the output is progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25 km/h or if the cyclist stops pedaling.”
The ambiguity is in the word 'continuous' - how long do you need to measure output power? 1 minute? 5 minutes? until the battery runs out? another problem found in measuring output power is the variable yield of electric motor depending on their rotational speed.
Already, a lot of EN15194 bikes can output 350W or more continuously when their motor run in their sweet zone until their batteries run out.
I expect trading standards are going to clarify the way continous power is measured because at present, a lot of EN15194 certificates are issued without measuring the motor output.
What would be fair is to fit all e-bikes with an output power control device in addition to their speedo, progressively limiting the power output as speed approaching the 15mph limit and cut it off completely after that. The device lets you climb hills with high power but not assist you over speed limit.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Trading standards won't do anything like that. They test to the standard. EN15194 defines the relevent EN standard to test the motor to. I don't have it to hand at the moment because I'm not on my home computer. Overpowered motors will pass that test. Only if the motor is under-powered or over-rated will it fail the test to cause Trading Standards to do something.

Nobody that has an EN15194 bike has anything to worry about

Aproblem could arise if your motor is marked 500w, 750w or 1000w because clearly it's not nominally rated at 250w continuous. "Nominally" means in name, so that's what the label has to say if it has one.

 

[trex]

if a few members of the public complain to trading standards that fast e-bikes frighten them on shared paths, they may start investigating then it will open up a can of worms.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

They can investigate as much as they like. If the bike meets the standard, they won't want or need to do anything further.

I think you, like many others, have made your own idea of what the regulations should say or what they intended, but nobody knows what they actually intended. They wrote the standard in the way that they did for their reasons. One only has to comply with what they wrote.

 

[flecc]

It is surprising that Kudos, Woosh, Wisper et al would appear then to be selling bikes that cannot be used legally on UK roads. Why do they claim EN15194 makes them legally useable here?

Quite simply because they've got away with for enough years to create a situation that is thought to be beyond correction.

Essentially the strict 200 watt limit that originally existed in the UK made e-bikes virtually useless, the added power only cancelling the added weight. So after over a decade of that manufacturers started to creep up the power, that first noticeable from about 1999. It's no coincidence that e-bikes started to become more popular in the UK from then on.

Confusion increased when the EU introduced the 2002/EC/24 type approval law for two wheeled motor vehicles that had some exclusions, one being that pedelecs having 250 watts watts maximum assist power with a maximum assist speed of 25 kph and weight under 40 kilos were exempt from motor vehicle type approval. That was mandatory of all member states with a deadline for introduction, and that was written into UK law on 10th November 2003. Accompanying that was an instruction that member states had to remove all conflicting national legislation, and that was where the UK fell down, that was not done.

Of course that wasn't a law making 250 watt e-bikes legal in the UK, though it looked like it, so from then manufacturers and agents increasingly openly promoted their e-bikes as being 250 watts, mistakenly or maybe conveniently thinking it acceptable.

However, the DfT had long recognised that with the EU having control of transport policy thoughout the union, parity of pedelec law was inevitable, and so they regularly promised it "within a couple of years or so". As ever, such minor matters always get lost under the pressure of what governments consider more urgent matters, so it never happened. The current promise is that the revision of the legislation will come into force in 2016, but since that's obviously just a year of convenience being after the next election, take it with a pinch of salt.

With e-bikes gradually becoming more common in some parts, it was inevitable that sooner or later they would come into conflict with the law, and that happened in one particular case when a traffic officer doggedly pursued that matter of the 250 watt rated power when the law only allowed 200 watts. BEBA got involved with me behind the scenes helping on the variety of all aspects of UK e-bike laws (there are many more than I've mentioned here), and the police force involved found themselves being apparently blocked from action by some of those measures. That force therefore took the matter to the DfT who, faced with the opposing arguments, finally realised that something had to be done.

That something was a meeting at which the representations from a consultation of interested parties were discussed and in recognition of the large number of 250 watt rated e-bikes on the road, the DfT agreed a waiver for them, here's the relevant extracts:
............................................................................................

Summary of Government response to consultation

2.The Department for Transport has considered the responses to this consultation and supports recommendations to harmonise power limits (from 200 Watts to 250 Watts) with similar provisions in place across Europe. This will provide consumers with access to a wider range of electrically assisted cycles.

Extracts from intentions:

The DfT and Police are aware that electric bikes currently sold and used in the UK are fitted with 250W motors, they do not intend to become involved in prosecuting those that sell or ride them. The use of an "Off Road Button" however is strictly forbidden now and is specifically mentioned in documents appertaining to new and existing guidelines.

"Grandfather rights" will apply to all bikes sold before the new regulations come into force. So any changes will not be retrospective.
....................................................................................................................

As you can see, that does not give an open door to any power as some say through their readings of EN15194, since that has no force in the UK at present. The only legal method of power rating for e-bikes in the UK at present is specified in BS1727 from 1987.

Note, no laws have been changed yet, we are still legally bound by all the 1980s UK e-bike laws, so liberal interpretations are dangerous.
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[trex]

I do hope that all the advertisers on this forum pay attention to your comment and stop thinking that they can label their motor anyway they like.

 

[denwyn]

So I take it that its best to get a bike now before they clamp down on the maufactors . What next MOT's and riding tests