Legality & electric bikes. Does speed matter!

[lectureral]

In principle, then, the only reason to keep to the law is that you might get caught? It's funny for codgers my age because we were taught that there was some sort of moral duty involved as well.

I'm no moral philosopher but my view on this dilemma is that the moral position is to be a considerate citizen - some people can keep all laws but still be a pain to their neighbours in society while others can break the law and yet still not cause ripples of annoyance. I rather like the idea that "Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the strict observance of fools."

In this context I guess that means worrying more about not causing other road-users a problem than the exact wattage of the motor or top speed.

 

[the_killjoy]

The point is at if you are 'speeding' it is up to the police that you were doing so under power rather than having strong legs ~ difficult

 

[flecc]

The point is at if you are 'speeding' it is up to the police that you were doing so under power rather than having strong legs ~ difficult

The benefit of pedelec rather than throttle only control. Not pedalling uphill or at 25 mph on the flat is a bit of a giveaway!

 

[homemoz]

Basically, I guess that we all have to take a moral position as to whether to keep within the letter of the law or take some leeway with the ambiguity which seems to present. The fact that no-one has been prosecuted means that there is this feeling of does it matter or doesn't it and in a way devalues the position of the law. For a couple of mph my choice would to buy a bike that conforms to EU or GB regulations. I do think that in a accident riding a bike which does not conform could lead to prosecution, especially if the bike rider was responsible - whether or not motor power is being used. It all boils down to how risk averse we are.

 

[Scottyf]

I personally have a bike that's quicker than the average ebike. But without power I also travel quite quickly and tend to be quite anfast ride without it. Hence when I had a front system it felt like it slowed me down sometimes. But I could put less effort in.

In the end I opted for something that offered a similar flat speed that I can hit on my own accord however it now helps mensustain that speed. But I ride mostly on fast dual carriage ways that just feel safer doing 20mph+

If I did that through the city centre though there would be all manner of incidents!

 

[mike killay]

With regard to throttles,
It is going to depend on how the act is worded.
So far, all I have seen is that the motor must be activated by turning the pedals and stop when the pedalling stops. Which is what most bikes fitted with a pedelec do.
I have not seen anything actively banning throttles, just that under some constructions of the proposed law, they might make the bike 'Not an e-bike'
On the other hand, it is only when we eventually see the wording of the new law, it is possible, that unless it specifically mentions throttles, then as long as a pedelec is fitted and works, then any other way of motoring the bike would not necessarily be illegal.
What must be remembered is that only a court can determine the law. The Home Office, DoE, barristers, solicitors etc. can only give an opinion.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Basically, I guess that we all have to take a moral position as to whether to keep within the letter of the law or take some leeway with the ambiguity which seems to present. The fact that no-one has been prosecuted means that there is this feeling of does it matter or doesn't it and in a way devalues the position of the law. For a couple of mph my choice would to buy a bike that conforms to EU or GB regulations. I do think that in a accident riding a bike which does not conform could lead to prosecution, especially if the bike rider was responsible - whether or not motor power is being used. It all boils down to how risk averse we are.

For me and many others, it's not the speed, but the help up hills that we want, for that you need 25 amps, which no legal bike can give.

 

[yselmike]

On my way home tonight a very tall guy on a big bike flew past me whaat and I was doing 30kph on my Flyer,just of the ferry
behind the station in Amsterdam,so I set off after him and got close and he was going 40kph after a few minuets something fell out off my pocket so I stopped and picked it up and he was gone,He was fast and it looked like it was normal for him
like he could ride at 40kph forever.
What is the normal speed for a road bike? I have peaked at 37 on my gazelle but cant keep it up for long.

 

[mike killay]

Meanwhile, in Singapore
Fewer people caught illegally modifying electric bikes this year - Channel NewsAsia

 

[flecc]

With regard to throttles,
It is going to depend on how the act is worded.
So far, all I have seen is that the motor must be activated by turning the pedals and stop when the pedalling stops. Which is what most bikes fitted with a pedelec do.
I have not seen anything actively banning throttles, just that under some constructions of the proposed law, they might make the bike 'Not an e-bike'
On the other hand, it is only when we eventually see the wording of the new law, it is possible, that unless it specifically mentions throttles, then as long as a pedelec is fitted and works, then any other way of motoring the bike would not necessarily be illegal.
What must be remembered is that only a court can determine the law. The Home Office, DoE, barristers, solicitors etc. can only give an opinion.

The EU regulations are quite specific that there must be no motor drive at any time when pedalling stops, so basically independent throttle operation isn't possible. A bike that doesn't comply with this has not been type approved and therefore cannot legally be on the road.

That's also been legally the case in Britain since 10th November 2003, but our failure to cancel the 1983 EAPC regulations as instructed has left a loophole meanwhile. The main point of the legal revision currently in process by the DfT is to tidy up the mess and give the whole UK (not Britain note) a common law which also satisfies the EU, the latter since transport harmonisation is EU policy for obvious reasons.

 

[lemmy]

I rather like the idea that "Rules are made for the guidance of wise men and the strict observance of fools."

Fools often think they are wise and wise men are often fools. Isn't that why we have laws?

I suppose my main point was, if you (one) argue(s) that it is ok to ignore the speed law on e-bikes because you think it is silly, why is it not ok to ignore the mobile law if you think that is silly?

I doubt that the people who pull out of turnings or drive up the motorway one handed while talking on their mobiles think it is dangerous at all. They see it as a law designed for fools - and they do not consider themselves fools.

Ditto the speed law on e-bikes.

 

[flecc]

Fools often think they are wise and wise men are often fools. Isn't that why we have laws?

The weakness is that the laws are too often made by fools.

 

[lectureral]

Fools often think they are wise and wise men are often fools.

I think we can all agree that we are the wise ones.

 

[morphix]

In my thread about Dahon conversions, the subject of speed has come up a few times. I've been reading the DirectGov site EAPC regulations for electric bikes. These give a max 200 watts power output & top speed of 15 mph which seems somewhat draconian. Been wondering whether anyone has ever been prosecuted for riding an electric bike which exceeds speed or power regulations? What would be the likely consequence of being caught either through routine inspection or the result of an accident. With some bikes being well over the limit and others only by the odd mph, would this make any difference in the case of a prosecution? Should I worry about riding a bike with a top assisted speed above the 15 mph limit?

My bike is capable going over the legal limit a bit but not by much so I generally don't worry. I have throttle only mode and used to worry more about getting stopped for that than the speed, but I've past quite a few police and had them driving behind me before and they never paid the slightest attention to me moving without pedaling.

To be honest I don't think they will stop you unless you're riding something that looks like a moped and going 30mph or something silly! I suppose age comes into it as well..younger teenie riders are probably more likely to get checked over than us oldies.

Just ride safely and make sure your bike has lights and everything is in good order.. if you do get stopped it will probably be more for those things than the power of your motor I suspect!

 

[Scottyf]

I agree, although I never stop pedalling. I still need to loose some timber!


Either way I love Electric bikes. So much so that i'm now looknig into an off road build for weekend fun.
My poor car has now not been used for 9 months

 

[morphix]

How common are ebikes where you guys live? I think I must of been one of the first people to get one in my town as over the last I've only ever seen ONE other person with one and he was an old man. They just don't seem popular or mainstream in my neck of the woods still. I see plenty of people riding ordinary bikes so I think maybe price is still a factor why many can't afford one or can't justify the cost. Hate to say it, but in a way I'm glad as once they become very cheap you can imagine the bad name all the teenagers will give them tearing up and down the street. That would probably signal the start of police taking more interest in ebikes in future..

 

[flecc]

How common are ebikes where you guys live?

I've never seen another one being ridden apart from when I paired up with anther member for a ride, despite living in an outer London borough. I've once seen a Giant Lafree Lite parked outside my local Sainburys and once seen an elderly man pushing a new Powabyke on the pavement in a heavy traffic area, looking very nervous as he did that.

In previous threads on this, most very rarely if ever see them, but there have been hot-spots reported where there are regular sightings. Two of these I remember being mentioned were Grimsby and Southampton.

 

[Scottyf]

I've seen three in and around Birmingham. An oxygen bike and a couple of juicy bikes.

 

[fishingpaul]

I have seen at least nine different bikes around birmingham,a lafree, a giant suede,a wisper or very similar,a torq,an izip,a folding bike,i think also an alien bike or could have been a kit,plus lots of powabykes new and old versions these could have been the same riders in different places though, so i am only counting as two spots, but i do tend to look for a motor or battery on bikes even when im driving.

 

[Scottyf]

Keep an eye out for me!