Hi GREAT job on the web site Can I suggest a paypal link for donations to upkeep the site
Frank
Frank
Lets Discuss an Ebike friendly sticker campaign........
- Thread starter funkylyn
- Start date
I like the concept of this thread but I'm completely uncertain as to how best businesses might display signage so that ebikers know immediately that re-charging facilities are available. Equally, I think any signage needs to alert non-ebikers to the possibilities we already understand.
For simplicity, I think something more descriptive than just a couple of words would grab attention. For example, a round, dinner plate sized, self-adhesive window sticker clearly depicting a bicycle with the word, "FREECHARGE" underneath might get non-converts wondering what they're missing. Obviously, they'd know immediately that it's something to do with cycling because of the visual aspect of the bike.
Probably, the colour green would need to figure highly on the signage but a touch of hi-vis would really make people notice. I suppose solid signs from enamelled metal for use on walls, doors or gates would be possible but perhaps prohibitively expensive. More and more shops, cafes and pubs seem to be attracting customers by offering free Wi-Fi but there are many thousands more smartfone and laptop carrying people on the High St than there are ebikers so it may not be easy to persuade businesses that there could be some extra trade in it for them.
I can imagine some take-up in certain rural and semi-rural ares of the country where cyclists are active and stop off at tearooms, cafes or pubs already. I'm not too sure how it would go down in central London or even suburban High Streets of other major conurbations around the country. It's still a good idea and I don't mean to sound negative about it but I am taking a slightly pragmatic view of things. Perhaps interestingly, responses to the poll seem to be few and far between up to this point which causes me to wonder what other forum members think of the premise.
Indalo
For simplicity, I think something more descriptive than just a couple of words would grab attention. For example, a round, dinner plate sized, self-adhesive window sticker clearly depicting a bicycle with the word, "FREECHARGE" underneath might get non-converts wondering what they're missing. Obviously, they'd know immediately that it's something to do with cycling because of the visual aspect of the bike.
Probably, the colour green would need to figure highly on the signage but a touch of hi-vis would really make people notice. I suppose solid signs from enamelled metal for use on walls, doors or gates would be possible but perhaps prohibitively expensive. More and more shops, cafes and pubs seem to be attracting customers by offering free Wi-Fi but there are many thousands more smartfone and laptop carrying people on the High St than there are ebikers so it may not be easy to persuade businesses that there could be some extra trade in it for them.
I can imagine some take-up in certain rural and semi-rural ares of the country where cyclists are active and stop off at tearooms, cafes or pubs already. I'm not too sure how it would go down in central London or even suburban High Streets of other major conurbations around the country. It's still a good idea and I don't mean to sound negative about it but I am taking a slightly pragmatic view of things. Perhaps interestingly, responses to the poll seem to be few and far between up to this point which causes me to wonder what other forum members think of the premise.
Indalo
Thankyou frank and Indalo for your comments.....just what we are looking for.
A paypal link will be going on the site once we have the name decided on.
Paul has already had quotes for stick on window signs.
Yes, you are right I think that the take up will probably be better in rural areas, but maybe this is where the need could be greater ?
I dont think you are sounding negative about it Indalo, its great to get more input and we are working hard to try to get this started and, over time, see it spread around the country.
If we all try to get at least one charging point in each area this will be a great start.
Once the website is finished there will be easy instructions on how to do this.
Lynda
A paypal link will be going on the site once we have the name decided on.
Paul has already had quotes for stick on window signs.
Yes, you are right I think that the take up will probably be better in rural areas, but maybe this is where the need could be greater ?
I dont think you are sounding negative about it Indalo, its great to get more input and we are working hard to try to get this started and, over time, see it spread around the country.
If we all try to get at least one charging point in each area this will be a great start.
Once the website is finished there will be easy instructions on how to do this.
Lynda
Great to see more input and comments as people return to the forum. Critical comments and possible problems we might encounter equally as welcome!
Some good ideas and suggestions to think about here Indalo.
Freecharge is a great name, the word "free" is always an attention grabber on a sign. But the problem is, we can't guarantee the scheme will always be free... some years down the line if the ebike industry really grows and people are constantly using charge points, businesses might want to push for a small fee for recharging. We're hoping this won't be the case but have left the possibility open so it doesn't put businesses off committing the scheme..in any case the site can be used to facilitate a mutual arrangement between ebikers and businesses over the issue of a fee should it come up for discussion later.
So if we then used the name freecharge and it turned out we had to start charging a fee some way down the line, we would have to withdraw all the old stickers and re-brand the scheme.. might be a lot of work/cost, especially if the scheme has grown considerably by then?
I think we will have to find the right balance about the size of the sign, we won't be able to take up too much window space..but ideally it should be easy to spot from a distance by random opportunity cyclists on the road or passing places on highstreet etc. I'm planning to make the site very easy to use though for cyclists so they can plan out their routes and know where charge points are in advance and print them out..
I agree with you on the take up rate being more likely focused in rural areas..I see the "family business" type establishments being more receptive to this idea rather than highstreet businesses.. but we might be surprised and see variation depending on the type of business or area of the country.
Thanks Penny, appreciate your help and enthusiasm! It really is a joint team effort so we're hoping to get more volunteers like yourself to spread the word or help out with the website and running of the scheme.
Our plan is to make the site very easy to use once we start getting charge points added...there will be a directory of every business taking part which you can browse or search by town/city/county/region and also eventually a map journey planner which lets you put in your postcode and destination postcode/town and then see all the charge points along the route.
Your observations about the security side of leaving expensive batteries & charger on business premises is noted.. all we can do really is advise ebikers to either stay on the premises where possible while recharging takes place... or if they're going to leave equipment to make sure its charged out back away from the public and the business is secure.. perhaps we can have some indication on our directory of which businesses can safely allow unattended charging and which ones can't.
Another possible idea I mentioned much further down the line..if we had loads of ebike users registered we could look at some kind of insurance pooling scheme that covers batteries from theft or damage, which may even extend outside of the charging scheme, i.e. to cover bikes locked up outside.
If I were to find myself beyond the electrical point of no return, I would look on the web to find my nearest re-charging station. Indeed, if I were planning this trip, I would also use the internet.
So, for me, stickers have little-to-no-use, but your website will be just the ticket! Especially once a map is included.
Anyway: surely, the easiest way for anyone to display the logo would be to just print- and stick it in their window. Sorry.
I think I benefit the most by being able to extend my journey without the need for an extra battery. Maybe a membership fee once this becomes viable? I would pay...
So, for me, stickers have little-to-no-use, but your website will be just the ticket! Especially once a map is included.
Anyway: surely, the easiest way for anyone to display the logo would be to just print- and stick it in their window. Sorry.
I think I benefit the most by being able to extend my journey without the need for an extra battery. Maybe a membership fee once this becomes viable? I would pay...
.......I think you could have phrased that better Lynda!Personally I think it would be better to offer the facility with no charge for it first and see how it goes......
Lynda
Morphix, I quite understand your remark about any such charging facility perhaps not always being free but even if a small tearoom or pub provided say, four sockets for the use of bikers, it would cost the firm next to nothing for an hour's electricity. Moreover, the idea that the ebike industry is likely to take off in a major way any time soon is somewhat fanciful.
Many High St businesses have been persuaded that it's a good idea to allow non-customers to use their toilet facilities as public ones maintained by councils have disappeared in many areas. They do so for free as a service to the community but they probably pick up the occasional bit of trade they would otherwise miss. The extra toilet paper, soap and electricity for warm air dryers probably adds up to a lot more than 3 or 4 battery chargers in occasional use.
Therefore, I would contend that charging provision from small businesses should always be free, especially if those firms enjoy a little free advertising from plaudits received in this forum and from local press in some cases. The major ebike magazines could also draw attention to any network of charging stations around the country. I really believe any company wishing to charge a fee for re-charging provision isn't much of a firm and doesn't deserve the trade.
If thousands of pubs, restaurants and guest houses thought it a good idea to spend money on smoking shelters after the ban on ciggies, I can't see how the incredibly low cost of charging someone's battery would present a difficulty now or at any time in the future.
"FREECHARGE" seems like a good idea to me and it should remain free. Any firm wishing to add a fee can simply withdraw the facility if they're really losing money or their business is suffering in some other way as a result.
I doubt very much if we're talking here about cyclists charging a battery from empty to full as most of us wouldn't have time to hang around for several hours so it's most likely going to be just a little top-up for most of us, 30 mins to an hour perhaps. That's hardly going to cause any problem for the provider.
Regards,
Indalo
LOL.....you are right there Indalo
As for not charging...that is what we are aiming for, and I cant see that it would end up a chargeable service for all the reasons you state.
I think we are just trying to think ahead and try to forsee any possible future problems.
Why dont you get freecharge added to the poll and we can take it from there ?
Lynda
As for not charging...that is what we are aiming for, and I cant see that it would end up a chargeable service for all the reasons you state.
I think we are just trying to think ahead and try to forsee any possible future problems.
Why dont you get freecharge added to the poll and we can take it from there ?
Lynda
Why didn't I think of that? I suppose, even if I had, it would have taken me about six paragraphs and a couple of quotations from Churchill or Oscar Wilde to get it across! Very succinctly put Hihihi and we could all carry a couple of them with us when we go out cycling so we could spread the word in those places where we stop off.
Indalo
That's assuming that only one battery is on charge. If several e-bikers go in and charge their batteries, then over the course of a week it could cost money. The business would need ton be assured that it would gain in sales of something or the other at least what it might cost in electricity.
But the biggest problem to me would be the business's insurance. What if someone's £500 battery got stolen? Or damaged? Or caught fire or exploded while it was being charged? Who would you see as being liable?
I'm not being negative, these are very important issues. If a scheme such as this took off it could involve hundreds of premises and thousands of batteries. Fires or theft would be bound to occur at some time. You can't just sign a disclaimer and nor can the shop. If negligence was involved someone would be liable.
The insurance and liability issues from both parties would have to be thrashed out before anything else was done.
Good idea about businesses printing their own signs. What I will do is provide some artwork in different sizes in PDF format or something, so businesses with decent colour laser printers or whatever, can just print off a copy at whatever size they deem appropriate. That would help us cut down our printing and mailing costs.
However I suppose the benefit to us printing and sending out our own vinyl labels, is that it provides a "consistent look" and bright highly visible label which won't fade like paper printed labels might.
That is a good point lemmy and something we will have to monitor very closely via the website. Ideally we want users of the scheme to login and tell us where they are using facilities and for how long etc, and if they made a purchase etc.. this will allow us to gage what kind of financial burden the scheme is placing on businesses..and no doubt businesses themselves can keep in contact with us too and tell us if they think its becoming a burden and costing too much to support..
I tend to agree with Lynda though, I don't see the cost becoming an issue and it should be possible to keep this scheme free.. if the cost of charging is so tiny, even if a dozen people charged per hour in a very busy charging point, surely out of those, at least 1 would provide some custom to the business to more than cover the electricity cost for the hour?
This is where having the technology side and the site will help this scheme work. It may be that we need to introduce a small charge only in high demand charging points, i.e. £1 an hour or something, maybe even with perhaps the first hour charging ("top-up charging") free.
It will have to be made crystal clear on the website that anyone using this scheme takes full responsibility for the risk of their battery going missing or being damaged, not the businesses. They will be excluded from any liability. Obviously some businesses may accept liability if their insurance provides cover and they are willing to claim, but users should not count on it.
It is something of a grey area still as to whether business public indemnity insurance would extend to covering public property left on business premises because of different policies and different types of businesses etc..and it might be in many cases that the charging is taking place in residential areas out back too. Same for fire risk from batteries I think.
I think the best approach really is adopt a common sense approach and just advise bikers not to leave batteries unattended where there are people around. And we can offer some general safety advice for businesses, not to leave batteries unattended for long periods and not to charge too many together on a single point etc.
You're absolutely right to bring up these issues and it's something we will have to work towards providing a comprehensive solution for, should the scheme really grow in the future.
As others have pointed out too, many people/businesses are already allowing laptops to be used and batteries for those charged on premises. Surely they face the same issues and risks?
Granted, ebike batteries is a newer technology. But realistically how many users of this site for example have reported a fire from charging a battery? The risk is probably incredibly small, but still a risk as you say. We do plan to make users register and provide some details of their batteries and chargers, so we might be able to exclude certain types of high risk batteries or grey imports from the scheme if need be.. of course, this relies on trust though from members..
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I think we should stick with the original idea of printing our own stickers to keep it uniform and make them stick on vinyl.
How many people would realistically be able to print their own ?
Lets not give small businesses any complications or more cost/work with the risk of them having an excuse to refuse.
Keep it simple....we print and provide, after all it will be us members who are approaching the businesses primarily in person, so easy for any of us doing this to have a few stickers at the ready to hand out.
Lynda
How many people would realistically be able to print their own ?
Lets not give small businesses any complications or more cost/work with the risk of them having an excuse to refuse.
Keep it simple....we print and provide, after all it will be us members who are approaching the businesses primarily in person, so easy for any of us doing this to have a few stickers at the ready to hand out.
Lynda
I've added freecharge to the list of suggested names for voting! You can cast your vote here.. Please only vote once!LOL.....you are right there Indalo
As for not charging...that is what we are aiming for, and I cant see that it would end up a chargeable service for all the reasons you state.
I think we are just trying to think ahead and try to forsee any possible future problems.
Why dont you get freecharge added to the poll and we can take it from there ?
Lynda
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When I think of the "Isle of Wight Re-Charging Stations" list, I wonder how many complications are realistic? Seriously, please click the link to see an example...
Ok agreed, really the cost of providing stickers is going to be relatively tiny anyway... we can do a batch of small batch of 500 stickers which will keep us going for a long time. As for the cost of mailing them... we can either ask businesses to send us a SAE, or just mail them out regionally in batches to our volunteers to hand deliver or post to businesses in their locality, to keep costs down for the scheme budget.
We could perhaps make a standard leaflet introducing/explaining the scheme in PDF format so ebike users can print out and take to businesses locally to keep our costs down there.. that will be a big cost if we start printing 1,000s of those and trying to distribute them to different volunteers.
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