Loose spokes

flecc · Oct 11, 2011

Broken spokes on wheels with hub motors are fairly common, often the best cure is a good wheel rebuild and many members have gone this way to solve the problem. It's a sad fact that factory built wheels are not assembled to the highest standards that motorised wheels really need.

If you have a good local bike shop they might be able to re-tension the spokes and improve the current build quite cheaply, but if the problem persists long term a rebuild will be the real solution.

oigoi · Oct 11, 2011

Often new wheels will bed in and need the odd bit of spoke tightening here and there but it is unusual to have this many spokes snap on you. usually the spoke that snaps isn't the one that has come loose it's another spoke than has more strain put on it by the loos one not taking it's proper load.

If you've only had the kit since July and you've had this many spokes snap in my opinion the spokes are not fit for purpose and you should send the wheel back and get them to rebuild it with better spokes.

I have bought new wheels and subjected them to very heavy use off road and downhill mountain biking and not broken any spokes. I think it is only fair that they rebuild the wheel for you with decent spokes as they are clearly not good quality.

flash · Oct 11, 2011

Flecc and oigoi are right. Some of the spokes the chinese use seem to be made out of cheese

. I have built wheels for many years and when 1 of my fathers electric bikes had the same problem I rebuilt the wheel for him. I was amazed how soft the original spokes were. Spokes made from soft material not only break easily but the thread pulls in the nipple hence making it a lose thread, loctite will work for a while but ultimately it will fail. Probably after the guarantee has expired. Getting the right length spokes was another story.

Mussels · Oct 12, 2011

I have trouble with wheels with or without motors and have needed a few rebuilds, I've found a good rebuild with a Sun Rhyno rim is very good.

catsnapper · Oct 12, 2011

flash said:
Flecc and oigoi are right. Some of the spokes the chinese use seem to be made out of cheese ......
Getting the right length spokes was another story.

That's why we supply and use European DT Swiss and Sapim spokes for all builds and rebuilds -and why we have a Morizumi spoke cutter and threader, and a high end tension meter

To be fair, some Chinese spokes are now of better quality, but still not near the quality of leading European/US brands. Rims are also of variable quality, as is the wheelbuilding.

A regular problem with some makes of e-hubs is variation in spoke hole size and position. Changing from 13g to 12g spoke holes in a batch of hubs has also been seen...
That doesn't mean all the wheels will fail, but we do see a number of wheels that shouldn't ever reach a customer.

Alan

Scottyf · Oct 12, 2011

I brought spokes from Alan above who measured my old spokes as well as helping me get the measurement right for the dishing of the wheel and can vouch for his workmanship.

I brought 40 spokes at a very reasonable cost and rebuilt my wheel over a couple of hours using dt Swiss spokes. Now I'm running peaks up to 1400watt and the wheel is very strong.

Very happy with anotherloads of miles under the rebuilt wheels

aseb · Oct 13, 2011

I second the use of DT Swiss or Sapim spokes. I also have larger gauge spokes on the motor wheel- 2.3mm.

Scottyf · Oct 13, 2011

Think the ones I ordered were 12 or 13 guage.
I think standard spokes are generally 14 guage. I think anything larger than the above you have to start using a special rim to ensure the nipples fit correctly.

I could be making this up however...

flecc · Oct 13, 2011

The build is very important though, thin spokes aren't necessarily weak. I built the back wheel of my Q-bike which needed a very severe offset of the 20" rim from the SB hub motor using 14 gauge spokes. Despite the setup being the most powerful legal one and that folding bike having all the weight concentrated at the rear wheel, it's never lost a spoke in thousands of bumpy miles, many with heavy pannier loads and heavy towing:

oigoi · Oct 13, 2011

You should not have to pay for this wheel to be rebuilt. The sale of goods act states that the wheel should be of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose.

The fact that so many spokes have broken in a few months of ownership shows that they are of poor quality and not fit for purpose.

I am surprised that xipi will not rebuild it for you or give you a replacement as that is their legal obligation.

See sample letter for making a complaint under the sale of goods act:

Sample letters - Understanding the Sale of Goods Act - Sale of goods - Which? Consumer Rights

If you choose to pay for the wheel to be rebuilt it is your choice but it is poor customer service by xipi if you are left to foot the bill. Xipi kits are not cheap you are entitle to expect decent quality components

oigoi · Oct 13, 2011

It is nothing to do with the road conditions. I have ridden a rigid mountain bike at high speed down descents where the road was nothing but boulders the size of footballs. The road was so rough it bent my handlebars from the force of the bike shaking, but not a single spoke broke on my wheels. That was on a pair of wheels that cost £99 from merlin cycles. Just shows how much the wheels in a xipi kit are really worth.

Up to you how you deal with it, personally I would take him to a small claims court. I am glad the embarrassment of his poor customer service has been highlighted on here, I had been considering purchasing a xipi kit but not any more!

Deleted member 4366 · Oct 13, 2011

I don't believe that there's any problem with the the rim or the spokes, neither is it anything to do with roads or the way you ride. The spokes simply were not given enough tension when the wheel was built. They would appear tight when the wheel is stationary, but as soon as you apply torque from the motor, the leading spokes go loose and that allows the nipples to unscrew a bit making them go even looser. There is then too much and uneven tension and movement in the other spokes causing them to break.

You know when your spokes are not tight enough because they make creaking noises. When they do that, it's time to tighten them.

tillson · Oct 13, 2011

Xipi's absence from this thread probably tells you all that you need to know.

catsnapper · Oct 13, 2011

d8veh said:
I don't believe that there's any problem with the the rim or the spokes, neither is it anything to do with roads or the way you ride. The spokes simply were not given enough tension when the wheel was built.

Yes, this can be true, but so can all the other causes. I wouldn't make a judgement without seeing the wheel, knowing the weight the bike was carrying and where and how it was being ridden and for how long.

Spokes are a surprisingly complex product. The quality of the steel wire and the sophistication of the spoke forming process are extremely critical in producing a reliable spoke. Poor quality steel can never be compensated for by high quality wheel building, it will just defer the problem for a short while...

oigoi said:
It is nothing to do with the road conditions. I have ridden a rigid mountain bike at high speed down descents where the road was nothing but boulders the size of footballs.

Yes, so have I, as have many other people. It proves nothing, except the wheels were ok on that particular occasion. I've seen plenty of instances where an apparently mild lateral blow has wrecked a strong, well built wheel.
London potholes may well be more lethal, so can a badly judged kerbhop.

Alan

oigoi · Oct 13, 2011

lee.pie said:
I've has this email from Frank:

13 October 2011 18:32, frank furby <frank@xipi.co.uk> wrote:

Hi lee
I see your posting on the pedalled forum you are not a very happy customer
Not good for you or my company
can you please speak to alan and get a price for re spoking you rear wheel and get him to send me a quote
It will be Quicker to send to him direct as we would use him to do the job
I am now on holiday for a week
Please post this email on the forum
Frank

I think Frank should pay for a new rim as well as the re-spoking as i really don't want this fault to reoccur.

I'm glad he is now trying to solve the problem though so hopefully all will soon be good.

Glad to see Frank is going to sort it out. Personally I don't think you will need a new rim I don't think that has caused the problems you have had.

Loose spokes

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