My name is ..... And I'm new here.....
- Thread starter FastFreddy2
- Start date
That would be putting the cart before the horse. If you have read the whole thread, you will know the owner is not young. A bicycle hasn't been ridden by the owner for some considerable time, more than 50 years. A minor incident with them coming off a bicycle, could be a death sentence, as a broken hip often can be with those in their later years.
Why a Kettwiesel Evo? Tadpole types sit lower. The owner could not get into and out of the seat in a suspension ICE e-trike without assistance because the seat is so low to the ground. The seat on the Lepus sits higher, which is good, but the seat is pushed against the underneath of the thighs, when the reach is adjusted for shorter legs. The Trigo is a better fit, but the seat is narrower so again uncomfortable.
The most comfortable, most suitable for size of rider frame, most accessible, was the Kettwiesel. Believe me, no small amount of effort/research went into the purchase.
So the 'cart' part of the combination does not involve a choice of any sort. The only choice comes with 'what horse'.
This has be solved at least once before, but I'm not sure the owner still visits? No posts here for 6 years. Post #4 on this thread.
Kettwiesel Trike Conversion
My wife and I took up recreational cycling, recently (fresh air and exercise), but she has suffered a frozen shoulder which has made upright cycling impossible for the moment. I bought a Kettwiesel delta trike for her to use and this has worked quite well but I would like to motorize it because...
www.pedelecs.co.uk
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Falling over attempting to push a heavy trike uphill would also cause problems. Of course broken or fractured bones don't heal well for persons of advanced age, which is why I said:
I really don't see a legal 250W hub drive being approriate, others with hub drive motors may disagree (but they'd be wrong IMHO, because the rider is not young).
In that instance using a 350W motor. If staying legal isn't important and you want to try a hub motor for this project - if compatible, @Benjahmin 's Dillinger kit really has to go:
I've only gorn and dunnit !
New ventisit seat pad arrived today and feels good. Tempted to try a short ride but discovered that the front disc is horribly worn. So, new disc but, oh bugger, it's a centre lock and I'm waiting on the special key, from the previous owner, for the dynamo axle. This bike is providing a whole...
www.pedelecs.co.uk
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ICE have a couple of specialist tadpoles which would give better stability and easily take a mid drive. The Adventure and Adventure HD for normal use, and the Full Fat for going anywhere. Including electric versions. But budget can quickly get out of hand.
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Someday, one of those will be mine! But only when there are lightweight fully enclosed versions available, with solar panel arrays on the roof.ICE have a couple of specialist tadpoles which would give better stability and easily take a mid drive. The Adventure and Adventure HD for normal use, and the Full Fat for going anywhere. Including electric versions. But budget can quickly get out of hand.
RECUMBENT ICE TRIKE ADVENTURE HD FULL SUSPENSION " Never been ridden or sat in" | eBay
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Not with the owner. There will be very little pushing of trikes anywhere, and there will certainly be no pushing of anything uphill.
This is where experience should make a difference to the purchasing decision.
There is the query over whether even a 250w motor would have too much torque and not enough weight to prevent the wheel spinning. Speed is not going to be an issue with the owner, who will be thinking 8mph will be plenty fast enough.
Ideally, a fully legal system would be preferred. However, if there isn't enough torque in a 250w motor to pull the trike and rider up slopes, then there might be a need to get a 350w hub motor instead.
The Dillenger kit looked interesting, but only 250w hub available for a 20" wheel, which may be sufficient anyway? Thanks for the nod in that direction.
I've avoided hubs thus far, because I have my doubts about whether a legal 250W hub motor would do everything that my mid-drive does (BBS01B) - it has both torque for hills and speed on the flat. Some people who rave on these forums about hub motors vs 250W mid-drives, use 350W or 500W(and +) motors. And I'm now braced for a diatribe...
But he hadn't solved it Freddie. He was in flat Norfolk and commented on that. There is no way the motor he chose would cope with a 20% or 25% hill.This has be solved at least once before, but I'm not sure the owner still visits? No posts here for 6 years. Post #4 on this thread.
Kettwiesel Trike Conversion
My wife and I took up recreational cycling, recently (fresh air and exercise), but she has suffered a frozen shoulder which has made upright cycling impossible for the moment. I bought a Kettwiesel delta trike for her to use and this has worked quite well but I would like to motorize it because...
You've already correctly identified the opposing problems, being stuck with one trike model which inherently cannot give enough front wheel tyre adhesion for a motor powerful enough to get up hills of 20 to 25% without much rider help.
Somehow the front would need a lot more weight to have sufficient grip for an illegal power motor/controller combination, probably about 750 watt rating.
.
a motor can be 1000w but it must not go faster than 15mph as that's what the law says as no 250w motor is getting you up any hill.
i have seen a Yamaha bike with a watt meter in between the batt and the motor and with a dongle it went as high as 800w.
so 800w under 15mph is fine but over that speed it is not which then just confuses the crap out of ppl just get pissed and ride it anyway
i have seen a Yamaha bike with a watt meter in between the batt and the motor and with a dongle it went as high as 800w.
so 800w under 15mph is fine but over that speed it is not which then just confuses the crap out of ppl just get pissed and ride it anyway
Jorvik Mid Drive Electric Mountain Trike JMT7 (500W)
Game-changing design meets go-anywhere ability. Now with a slimmer battery and mid-drive motor to replicate the balanced, natural feel of cycling.
jorviktricycles.com
I'm pretty sure this is the animal a friend of the family owns. The owner loves it, but has ridden a bicycle all her life. She now lives on one of the islands in the Inner Hebrides, so perfectly suitable transport there. Shame it isn't a recumbent.Jorvik Mid Drive Electric Mountain Trike JMT7 (500W)
Game-changing design meets go-anywhere ability. Now with a slimmer battery and mid-drive motor to replicate the balanced, natural feel of cycling.
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As is usual for such enclosed e-trikes, this is vapourware:
avvenire.com
FORAS - AVVENIRE
The Foras is a fully enclosed recumbent Ebike with a range up to 200km (124m) and a 2,880 wh battery. A sleekly supercharged, totally green way to travel.
avvenire.com
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Ok, I hadn't realised quite how high the Kettwiesel seat is. 48 to 50cm from a quick look, with ICE Full Fat only 42cm.
I think we've reached 'you can't have everything' territory!
You can have a front hub on the Kettwiesel, and the high seat, but you likely won't get up the hill. You can choose the highest tadpole seat design, add a mid motor, and get up the hill. Or find a competent engineer to rework the Kettwiesel steering around a mid motor...
Can you work around that hill?
I think we've reached 'you can't have everything' territory!
You can have a front hub on the Kettwiesel, and the high seat, but you likely won't get up the hill. You can choose the highest tadpole seat design, add a mid motor, and get up the hill. Or find a competent engineer to rework the Kettwiesel steering around a mid motor...
Can you work around that hill?
This isn't the sort of remark that is suggesting the quest is making progress.
The configuration worked for the rider, who themselves said the motor helped their fairly able riding ability. But I don't remember them writing they only rode in Norfolk? Either way, a motor that can use more power is not off the cards, it's where the purchasing choice gets pitched, meaning 350w, 500w ..... 36v or more?
The Wiesmann 250w motor is sold in a place where the land in the UK is not flat. No reviews that suggest it isn't up to the job? I am becoming resigned to having to acquire a 250w motor under a 'suck it and see' initiative, with the prospect of a 350w replacement. I'm not even sure higher consumption 20" wheels are readily available. Maybe I should look? What I don't really want to waste money on, is the battery pack. That really should be a one-off purchase.
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TrikExplor F420E Electric Recumbent Quad bike 500W 48V
Fat Tyre Recumbent Quad F420E The F420E is built primarily to be easy to ride for some people who want more stability. It offers a better view, good ground clearance and additional cargo capacity, which makes it the perfect utility vehicle for adventure off-road, more extreme sport. All Terrains...
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if you want a bomb proof motor and all parts can be bought for it get one of these and the programme cable then you can set the power limits to what they like.
m8 has one of those on a bike frame that is 20 years old and uses it for work every day in all weathers and not stopped once.
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m8 has one of those on a bike frame that is 20 years old and uses it for work every day in all weathers and not stopped once.
I very much like your summary of the situation. I had sent a link to the owner yesterday, and I'm sure they are watching the progress of the prospective project. (You can be sure, the whole enterprise will be well documented here.)
Originally, I had hoped that vendors might work with us to produce a working solution. What do I mean buy that? Retail outlets who maybe carried stock of a number of hub wheels, would use "our" Kettwiesel as a testing ground for a solution they might offer the Hase owners in the UK. I know for fact (because I've met a few) they are often elderly folk who have enjoyed riding a bike then trike, but had to give up riding because they become too infirm for pedalling up hills. My partner who used to cycle some 5 miles each way to work every work day, will not get on a bike now, for that very reason..... I truly believe, e-bikes, e-trikes bring back the joy we all used to have when we were young and fit, and would ride our bikes out somewhere just for the pleasure of the journey.
The Kettwiesel ought to be a trike that can be easily converted to an e-bike, but the basic design has ensured this is very difficult. Hase has recently altered their range of recimbents to reflect the market demand for e-trikes, though others in their range are easier to convert.
In another life, I was a welder. I am thinking that possibly, a simple route that could solve all the barriers, is to have the Kettwiesel boom cut, and welded back together, but with the bottom bracket rotated 180' from its present position. This would allow a mid-drive to be mounted above the boom, and away from the steering arm.
I think the hub motor will get tried first.
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