Pedelec-throttles-registered disabled-grants and vat.

[Kudoscycles]

On a parrallel thread we were discussing throttles and EN15194.
If a rider is disabled enough to need considerable use of the throttle to ride the bike,would it be a good idea that ebikes with throttles are available for registered disabled riders,supported by government grants and vat free,included in the governments Motability scheme?
Or does that happen already?
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Old_Dave]

Or does that happen already?

AFAIK.. Bikes are not associated by HMG with peeps that have a disability (registered or not, with or without DLA mobility).

The blinkered attitude is that a person with a disability would not be capable of riding a bike... maybe its time they woke up.

 

[muckymits]

And how do you define disability? HMG cant make their mind up.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

And how do you define disability? HMG cant make their mind up.

I am pretty sure this does not meet the current regulations regarding VAT exemptions.

 

[jackhandy]

By coincidence, just yesterday I was beetling round the Goss Moor Trail on the bouncer, when 2 mobility-type scooters came t'other way:
The chap on the hindmost one was giving it beans to pass his missus, so I slowed-up & had chance for a good look at his machine - It was the real business - more like a quad than your average scooter, so I presume he's into off-roading.

That started the chain of thought as to how I might well keep riding in the distant (hopefully) future & whether there's intermediate kit between 2-wheels with assistance & a full-blown x/c scooter....

 

[flecc]

On a parrallel thread we were discussing throttles and EN15194.
If a rider is disabled enough to need considerable use of the throttle to ride the bike,would it be a good idea that ebikes with throttles are available for registered disabled riders,supported by government grants and vat free,included in the governments Motability scheme?
Or does that happen already?
Dave
Kudoscycles

As you know, I support this idea Dave, it doesn't happen at present though.

Even if the government wouldn't support it in full, perhaps the appropriate minister could give consideration to the acceptance of a doctor's certificate stating that the patient has a condition that would impair pedalling, either permanently or at certain times.

There is precedent for such an exception, those with psychological or physical conditions which impair their ability to wear a seat belt in a car can be exempted by a doctor's certificate.

 

[Kudoscycles]

As BEBA are currently in depth discussion with the government,this may be a good moment to raise this matter,the costs involved would be minimal. The ebike,unlike the mobility scooter,still offers some exercise when the rider feels fit enough so it would be easy to sell the health apect.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Old_Dave]

And how do you define disability? HMG cant make their mind up.

Make up you own mind as to who said what.

I want a bike

Is it a mobility scooter... no

Is it a stair lift... Errr, no

Is it a bath hoist ... Ummmm, no

Is it a wheelchair ... Dear god, Its a bike

Its not on the computer, it doesn't exist (don't know if it was god that wasn't on the computer or bike)

this may be a good moment to raise this matter,

In the words of the famous professor .. I wish you deep joy

 

[Scimitar]

As you know, I support this idea Dave, it doesn't happen at present though.

Even if the government wouldn't support it in full, perhaps the appropriate minister could give consideration to the acceptance of a doctor's certificate stating that the patient has a condition that would impair pedalling, either permanently or at certain times.

There is precedent for such an exception, those with psychological or physical conditions which impair their ability to wear a seat belt in a car can be exempted by a doctor's certificate.

When I bought my wheel from China, I was exploring the Irish Customs site to see what duty I'd be likely to pay on it and ended up phoning a lady in the Customs. During the conversation I asked her about medical exemptions I'd seen mentioned for disabled users of mobility aids and whether this would come under it.
The short answer was likely 'yes' and if I'd been a bit more puggered I could have got a Doctor's letter to say so and so avoided paying VAT on it, and possibly the duty too (I'm not certain of that last bit).
Anyway, the Irish Customs regs are EU-based and the same regs apply in most EU countries. While such a thing is largely at the discretion of the Irish Customs and might not apply elsewhere as and when some Inspector of Customs decides for or against it, it's a basis for negotiation.
I'm only saying what happened (or nearly happened) here, but it might have a bearing on what could take place in the UK or elsewhere.

 

[jazper53]

There is precedent for such an exception, those with psychological or physical conditions which impair their ability to wear a seat belt in a car can be exempted by a doctor's certificate.

So if you fail to get your throttle type approved then maybe you can get yourself type approved ? its funny old world

 

[Shroppielass]

On a parrallel thread we were discussing throttles and EN15194.
If a rider is disabled enough to need considerable use of the throttle to ride the bike,would it be a good idea that ebikes with throttles are available for registered disabled riders,supported by government grants and vat free,included in the governments Motability scheme?
Or does that happen already?
Dave
Kudoscycles

Dave it would be a great idea. I’m certain there are plenty of people with disabilities who would benefit, many of whom probably don’t even know of the existence of ebikes.
So I hate to pour cold water on the idea but I suspect you could be heading into as big a can of worms as the debate over throttles and EN15194.

The notion of people being “registered disabled” is problematic for a start. No such register really exists. Local authorities have a legal duty to maintain a 'register' of people who have a 'physical disability', defined under Section 29 of the National Assistance Act 1948 as:
'……persons who are substantially and permanently handicapped by illness, injury, or congenital deformity.'

But in practice the 'register' has become obsolete, a bureaucratic requirement that is of no benefit to anyone. It supposedly enables local authorities to know who in their area might benefit from services and provides estimates of the numbers of disabled people locally and what impairments they have. But registration is not compulsory. It confers few rights or benefits and many disabled people object to it. So in practice councils meet their duty by holding a computerised record of people who have been seen by them and recorded as having a 'physical disability'.

As Muckymitts says
"And how do you define disability? HMG cant make their mind up. "

Would you use the aforementioned definition from the National Assistance Act 1948?
or the one in Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970? (used for items with VAT relief for disabled people)
or the one in the Equality Act 2010 (with 50+ pages of guidance on the definition alone)?
Or perhaps you would use qualification for Attendance Allowance or the Disability Living Allowance....?

And having defined disability, how would you determine if they were disabled enough to need considerable use of the throttle? Another role for Atos?

As legislation stands disabled people cannot get ebikes under the Motability scheme and ebikes don’t qualify for zero rating (Notice 701/7 VAT Reliefs for disabled people August 2002) because, generally speaking, goods have to be specifically designed for the sole use of disabled people.

 

[Shroppielass]

By coincidence, just yesterday I was beetling round the Goss Moor Trail on the bouncer, when 2 mobility-type scooters came t'other way:
The chap on the hindmost one was giving it beans to pass his missus, so I slowed-up & had chance for a good look at his machine - It was the real business - more like a quad than your average scooter, so I presume he's into off-roading.

Sounds like a Tramper, an all-terrain scooter.

 

[morphix]

On a parrallel thread we were discussing throttles and EN15194.
If a rider is disabled enough to need considerable use of the throttle to ride the bike,would it be a good idea that ebikes with throttles are available for registered disabled riders,supported by government grants and vat free,included in the governments Motability scheme?
Or does that happen already?
Dave
Kudoscycles

That's an excellent idea Dave and we should push for it if it's not available already. It's a pity that a large portion of users (who could benefit the most from e-bikes) are going to be automatically excluded by this new law in cases where people can't pedal.