petition to increase the speed limit

Bobajob

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2019
296
128
Cornwall
The cost benefit isn't as simple as it appears, there's also the difference / cost of global warming in the longer term to take into account.
I have 2.4kwh of solar, installed when the fit scheme started. Costs were twice what they are now, fit was higher. They've now paid for themselves and are earning a tax free profit way better than the same money in the bank over the period. Circa 8%. 25 Yr estimated lifespan.
Is it worth having them installed now?
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,686
4,380


Christian Bull


, Model S owner February 2014-17, Model X since May 2017
Answered January 28, 2016 · Author has 866 answers and 4.3M answer views

As others have touched upon, the Model S top speed is not limited by available power, but by available RPMs.
When cruising, even at top speed, a P90D only utilizes the 259hp front motor, which is geared to rev lower than the rear motor. There's absolutely no need for even that much horsepower to cruise at top speed - remember that for top speed weight doesn't matter, it's a question of drag versus horsepower, and the Model S has the lowest drag on the road. Hence you're not using anywhere near maximum power. The power limiter on my S60 allows less than 120kW of power at its top speed of 193 km/h (120mp/h), and the actual consumption is lower (sorry, I was too busy paying attention to the road to make detailed notes).
A 90kWh battery pack is nowhere near 90kWh in available power, however. It's closer to 80kWh. (85kWh packs are 76kWh usable).
People who have averaged 160 km/h on the Autobahn, report a consumption of about 300 Wh/km, or 260 km effective range in an 85. At 180 that goes up to 380 Wh/km for a range of 200km (speaking of 85s, not 90s here btw).
As the laws of physics dictate, consumption increases a lot as speed goes up just a little, so cruising at the full speed of the P90D is probably going to set you back at least 5-600Wh/km. Let's assume 600Wh/km and 80kWh usable. That'll give you a range of 133km
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,533
23,370
so how far do you think it will go going 155mph it wont be anywhere near 400 miles! thats the point!
No it's not, the real point is that there's nowhere you can drive at 155 mph in the UK, or most other countries. These days you're lucky if you find a motorway where you can keep up 80mph. If they aren't clogged with traffic they are being dug up.

Today's e-cars have all the performance and range that anyone can use in this country without risking their licence.
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,686
4,380
the way i see it is false advertising same as ebike with a estimated range based on what conditions ect ect.

i bet if i went to any electric car dealer none could answer my question on range at max speed as i could just be using it on a race track so no speed limits.

they dont say 400 mile range @20mph on the flat only on a sunny day with no wind do they it is just estimated.

bosch said my bike can do 110 miles but in the real world in turbo with a dongle it is 25 miles if that on the flat in turbo mode.
 

jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
131
74
Is it worth having them installed now?
AFAIK the fit tariff has dropped in proportion to the cost. They are maybe half the price and more efficient. I may be wrong, not looked for a while. It's not just monetary worth though, it's helping stop global warming.
The new green home deal due September is £5k per house, up to 2/3 of the cost, you pay 1/3. On eligible benefits £10k. We are going for solar hot water, but you can't claim Renewable Heat Incentive. Probably the same with SPV, you'd get a system for 1/3 cost but no FIT payments. There is an export payment for the voles that run down the wires out into the world too. The ones you haven't fed into your kettle!
On top of all this our electrickery bills are low, we use the washing machinery in the daytime. If I charge my bike in the daytime its free.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,533
23,370
the way i see it is false advertising same as ebike with a estimated range based on what conditions ect ect.

i bet if i went to any electric car dealer none could answer my question on range at max speed as i could just be using it on a race track so no speed limits.

they dont say 400 mile range @20mph on the flat only on a sunny day with no wind do they it is just estimated.
That's the Yanks for you, they sometimes still use the discredited NEDC system.

If you want more accurate buy European where the WLTP ranges are accurate in summer conditions. But e-car users have to accept that cold weather ranges can be much lower. That doesn't stop Norway, which reaches beyond the arctic circle, from having the highest pro rata e-car sales in the world. Over 50% of all new car registrations.
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,686
4,380
my point was if i bought one and took it to a race track with no speed limits the range stated will be no where near what the dealer says is estimated and based on what lol.

and the way things are going you wont be able to brake any speed limits in the next say ten years as the cars might be able to drive them self buy then so i cant even see the point of owning one.

its going to look like west world pmsl computer says no :p

 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,533
23,370
my point was if i bought one and took it to a race track with no speed limits the range stated will be no where near what the dealer says is estimated and based on what lol.
What's with you and all this race track nonsense?

The Tesla model S is not a race car. It's a five seater road saloon car, sold by road car dealers for use in road car conditions. In this country if you value your driving licence that means keeping it below 100 mph, below two thirds of what it can do. Given our limiting road conditions it will also have plenty of range, not to mention its ultra rapid charging network to quickly add as much range as you want.
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,686
4,380
i dont have a driving licence so i dont care it is my choice how fast i want to go i was banned from driving b4 i was even old enough to take a driving licence test pmsl.

why do you think i have a ebike with a dongle :p

when ai in cars takes over it will not let you go any faster than what the speed limit is anyway and sod that.

next thing you know they will have sensors everywhere and when you fart outside will be classed as destroying the environment and a 150 fine sent to ur phone via email and automatically taken from you credit account.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,533
23,370
when ai in cars takes over it will not let you go any faster than what the speed limit is anyway and sod that.

next thing you know they will have sensors everywhere and when you fart outside will be classed as destroying the environment and a 150 fine sent to ur phone via email and automatically taken from you credit account.
Although in the very long term some of what you post above will be true, A.I. is very long way off, as are automatically driven cars. The promoters of this dreamworld are already beginning to admit these have proved far more difficult than they ever thought.

I won't even see the first traces of it in my lifetime and you'll probably being using a walking stick before you see it. I suppose there might be dongles for electric walking sticks though, so don't get depressed.
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,686
4,380
when im 65 i want a 2500bhp mobility scooter with force fields and laser cannons 0-300mph in 3.2 seconds and a self destruct option. :p
 
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nigelbb

Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2019
143
135
The cost benefit isn't as simple as it appears, there's also the difference / cost of global warming in the longer term to take into account.
I have 2.4kwh of solar, installed when the fit scheme started. Costs were twice what they are now, fit was higher. They've now paid for themselves and are earning a tax free profit way better than the same money in the bank over the period. Circa 8%. 25 Yr estimated lifespan.
You didn't answer the question. How much did they cost? Then as a supplementary question what would 2.4KWh of solar cost to have installed now? I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile for me to do it.
 

jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
131
74
when im 65 i want a 2500bhp mobility scooter with force fields and laser cannons 0-300mph in 3.2 seconds and a self destruct option. :p
You'll be awaiting Elon's next model with drooling chin then, the Tesla Trollster. Have you a bridge to park under? ;)
 

jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
131
74
You didn't answer the question. How much did they cost? Then as a supplementary question what would 2.4KWh of solar cost to have installed now? I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile for me to do it.
What did your last slave die of? A tip, highlight the relevant text in your post, right click, then web search. This is top of the list, there's lots more...
;):D
Cost for my system 10.5k in 2010, net cost 0 after 10 years, now they just give me free money and voles.
 
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jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
131
74
Although in the very long term some of what you post above will be true, A.I. is very long way off, as are automatically driven cars. The promoters of this dreamworld are already beginning to admit these have proved far more difficult than they ever thought.

I won't even see the first traces of it in my lifetime and you'll probably being using a walking stick before you see it. I suppose there might be dongles for electric walking sticks though, so don't get depressed.
.
Get a zoomer frame.
 
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GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
96
49
You didn't answer the question. How much did they cost? Then as a supplementary question what would 2.4KWh of solar cost to have installed now? I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile for me to do it.
Shop around, and beware there are still a few cowboys left in the trade, although many left when HMG stopped throwing money at it. Find good local firm and checkout some of their installs. My guys do council buildings, Shropshire wildlife Trust, etc, and won't sell you what won't work.

If you have cash it is still a better investment than 1% savings account imo, and might save the planet as a byproduct.
 
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jimriley

Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2020
131
74
Shop around, and beware there are still a few cowboys left in the trade, although many left when HMG stopped throwing money at it. Find good local firm and checkout some of their installs. My guys do council buildings, Shropshire wildlife Trust, etc, and won't sell you what won't work.

If you have cash it is still a better investment than 1% savings account imo, and might save the planet as a byproduct.
It will also increase the property value. With the green homes incentive you only have to find 1/3. With solar being as cheap as it is now and interest rates low it probably makes sense to borrow a couple of grand and throw it at the roof.
 

ColinJTod

Pedelecer
Jul 21, 2020
32
24
Todmorden
We have taken regular bikes in the past and agree there are some testing climbs (the one out of Mousehole springs instantly to mind, might need Turbo for that one!).
I took my road bike down to Penzance about 20 years ago and cycled a loop to Mousehole and on round to Land's End, Zennor, St Ives, and back to Penzance. Over the week I was there I did that loop 3 or 4 times into a horrid westerly headwind and it was just killing my legs every time. Then the last time that I did it the wind had somehow changed to an easterly and it felt like I was flying up there!

The climb up from the beach at Sennen Cove was a bit horrid too.