petition to increase the speed limit

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
11,496
4,491
57
West Sx RH
Only a few bang on about speed which is non starter, if the gov't want people to become fitter less reliant on ice vehicles a proper cycle infrastructure is needed. No stupid painted lines or flat cycles on a bit of road but proper segregated safe lanes with a physical barrier between vulnerable users and road traffic.
 

youngoldbloke

Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2018
64
25
72
South West
Govt has thrown millions at Shared Use cycle / pedestrian path infrastructure


Some of it daft* (Grayling was involved!) with some Councils badly implementing schemes but by its nature of mixed users it would preclude 20mph pedelecs / sub mopeds bowling along.

* https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/14467014.council-to-press-ahead-with-controversial-750000-cycle-path-scheme-in-mile-end-road-colchester/

If you wish to ride at 20mph - on any bicycle, assisted or otherwise - stay on the road. You have an absolute right to do so.
 

georgehenry

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2015
863
823
Surrey
Quote from Spitz

"I don’t understand this oft repeated phrase about the desire for a peddlec to be designed to reach 20mph. On a flat or even slight incline I do not find it difficult to maintain a cruising speed around 20mph on my ebike with only a little effort. Downhill this obviously rises further."


I think you might find it a bit harder with full heavy panniers. That is the beauty of an ebike they can carry a good payload without impacting on speed.

My 10 mile undulating B road has a bit of everything including some steep hills and I average 20 mph for the whole 10 mile route.
 
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Bobajob

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2019
270
122
Cornwall
And you can carry on for another 15 to 35 years! 15 years until buying an i.c. c ar is banned, then a further 20 years to wear out the last ones bought before the government takes all i.c. cars off the road.

That's assuming you can still find fuel stations, they're already down to less than half there once were and well outnumbered by e-car charging points. You'll be seeing more and more of these as time goes by:

View attachment 37467
Where will the government get the power from? The planned power stations that are needed are no where near enough. The head of the power industries think tank said we can’t keep up with demand now when the kettle goes on at 5pm let alone charging car batteries every day.
more and a lot more power stations need to be built in the next 15 years.

bearing in mind how long HS2 is taking then we’re doomed lol
 

Bobajob

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2019
270
122
Cornwall
T
Quote from Spitz

"I don’t understand this oft repeated phrase about the desire for a peddlec to be designed to reach 20mph. On a flat or even slight incline I do not find it difficult to maintain a cruising speed around 20mph on my ebike with only a little effort. Downhill this obviously rises further."


I think you might find it a bit harder with full heavy panniers. That is the beauty of an ebike they can carry a good payload without impacting on speed.

My 10 mile undulating B road has a bit of everything including some steep hills and I average 20 mph for the whole 10 mile route.
Try maintaining that in Cornwall.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,108
22,804
Where will the government get the power from? The planned power stations that are needed are no where near enough. The head of the power industries think tank said we can’t keep up with demand now when the kettle goes on at 5pm let alone charging car batteries every day.
more and a lot more power stations need to be built in the next 15 years.
E-cars don't need lots more power stations. Go though the eight pages of this thread to read my replies to all those who think the way you do and you'll see there is no problem.

For starters e-cars carry out almost all their charging at night and they all have charge timers. And they aren't greedy like i.c. cars, the equivalent cost of 200 mpg is easy, and even 400 mpg from some night electricity deals. Only today one energy company is offering the equivalent of 500 mpg compared with a 30 mpg i.c. car. That's because there's so much electricity available during the night it's embarrassing since power stations can't just be shut down in a instant so they need to get rid of the surplus.

And in future e-cars not being used will be supplying the grid at times of high demand, they already do in Denmark and the same is being planned for here. Nissan and one of the energy companies have just launched a government backed trial scheme.

And we only buy 2 million cars a year so replacing our 30 million I.C. ones would take 15 years even if all of us only buy e-cars. But we won't of course, for 15 years many will still buy i.c. ones while they can. So the demand for more current will be very gradual.

Charging stations will be providing a lot of their own solar power anyway. One fully open by the A9 in Scotland can charge 26 cars at a time and supplies 30% of the power needed from it's solar roofing. Here's a photo of it:

largest-ev-charging-hub-scotla-8db98d6b.jpg
 
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Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,065
1,336
North Staffs
Oh this argument again, that's why I kept away from the forum for years. This and Brexit and that will kick off again.


Flecc, you have immense patience.
 

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
68
36
Roof some of that new housing with solar panels and the problem just becomes one of storage. Ok, December or Feb might be a bit rough, but offshore wind will help there, unless it blows away. I only did the garage south side roof, and for 8 months of the year I can heat my water (with electric) and still come out net 0 (in during the day, out at night). Would need 25+KwH of storage to smooth 'all' the dips though (99% of them), which would be quite a few pedelecs, but only 1 electric car .. and it might be flat at some point I wanted it.
 
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Edward Elizabeth

Pedelecer
Aug 10, 2020
63
83
Central England
E-cars don't need lots more power stations. Go though the eight pages of this thread to read my replies to all those who think the way you do and you'll see there is no problem.

For starters e-cars carry out almost all their charging at night and they all have charge timers. And they aren't greedy like i.c. cars, the equivalent cost of 200 mpg is easy, and even 400 mpg from some night electricity deals. Only today one energy company is offering the equivalent of 500 mpg compared with a 30 mpg i.c. car. That's because there's so much electricity available during the night it's embarrassing since power stations can't just be shut down in a instant so they need to get rid of the surplus.

And in future e-cars not being used will be supplying the grid at times of high demand, they already do in Denmark and the same is being planned for here. Nissan and one of the energy companies have just launched a government backed trial scheme.

And we only buy 2 million cars a year so replacing our 30 million I.C. ones would take 15 years even if all of us only buy e-cars. But we won't of course, for 15 years many will still buy i.c. ones while they can. So the demand for more current will be very gradual.

Charging stations will be providing a lot of their own solar power anyway. One fully open by the A9 in Scotland can charge 26 cars at a time and supplies 30% of the power needed from it's solar roofing. Here's a photo of it:

View attachment 37779
In terms of carbon equivalency E cars dont get anywhere near 200mpg - in that regard 130mpg is regarded as very good indeed. And if these e cars are being charged at night, why the big push for chargers outside shops, workplaces, in the street, and at motorway services? It doesn't add up.

And we we'll never replace 30 million ICE cars one for one with 30 million electric cars. There arent enough rare earth metals to make the batteries, motors and electrics, for every ICE car on the planet to be replaced by an electric one - not even a fifth. Even if massive deposits were discovered tomorrow they could not be brought up to capacity quickly enough to be able to replace all the ICE cars before they reach the end of their lifespan.

If ICE cars are genuinly going to be legislated from the roads then driving cars of any sort won't be the future at all for the majority simply because there won't be many cars to drive. It'll be either public transport or small scale personal transport, such as e-bikes. Next time you make an unnecessary 1 mile car journey (not rare - 80% of car journeys in Greater Manchester are less than 1km!) make sure you pay attention and enjoy it, because for the majority that will be a thing of the past 30 or 40 years when there are only sufficient cars for a minority of users.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,108
22,804
Blinkers off time!

In terms of carbon equivalency E cars dont get anywhere near 200mpg - in that regard 130mpg is regarded as very good indeed.
I was speaking of cost equivalence of course and what I posted was accurate.

And if these e cars are being charged at night, why the big push for chargers outside shops, workplaces, in the street, and at motorway services? It doesn't add up.
Yes it does. Outside shops and other commercial premises for customer gaining advantage of course. In the street since some 25% of homes countrywide cannot have a home charge point for access reasons. Motorway services because that is obviously essential, being where the longer trips take place.

And we we'll never replace 30 million ICE cars one for one with 30 million electric cars. There arent enough rare earth metals to make the batteries, motors and electrics, for every ICE car on the planet to be replaced by an electric one - not even a fifth. Even if massive deposits were discovered tomorrow they could not be brought up to capacity quickly enough to be able to replace all the ICE cars before they reach the end of their lifespan.
You assume there will not be any other battery technology and have dismissed other methods such as fuel cells which are already with us and in use on the roads. In any case I don't agree with your pessimism. When the demand exists, we do what is necessary and the time scale is more on our side than you seem to think. There's the 15 years to shutting down i.c. car sales, plus the 22 years of the average life of i.c cars. A lot can be done in up to 37 years.

If ICE cars are genuinly going to be legislated from the roads then driving cars of any sort won't be the future at all for the majority simply because there won't be many cars to drive. It'll be either public transport or small scale personal transport, such as e-bikes.
There will be some small degree of truth in what you say here, but again you are being far too pessimistic, just look at the contrary indicators. If the future for e-cars was so bad, why would we be forging ahead with bringing in electric vans on such a large scale, something you probably aren't even aware of? Why would we be bringing in battery electric buses on a large scale? Why would we be installing charge points and stations on such a large scale, the numbers already dwarf the rapidly shrinking numbers of i.c fuel stations? Why would a number of serious companies like Airbus be researching electric flight?
.
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,641
4,364
show me 1 electric car that can go 200mph for 200 miles :p
 

GSV3MiaC

Pedelecer
Jun 6, 2020
68
36
We near ran out of tungsten to make incandescent bulbs too.. Necessity mother of invention, etc, although compact fluorescent was a bit of a detour.

Also with self drive cars, you don't necessarily need one (or 2 or 6) in the garage, just whistle when you want one.
 
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soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
10,641
4,364
Show me a country that permits 200 mph for 200 miles. :p
.
race track ill book it for 12hrs, now go find one, not going to happen is it lol.

and what you going to do when they limit electric cars to 15mph and drive them self you wont have any choice thats the point.
 
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wheeler

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 4, 2016
628
1,197
Scotland
Where will the government get the power from? The planned power stations that are needed are no where near enough. The head of the power industries think tank said we can’t keep up with demand now when the kettle goes on at 5pm let alone charging car batteries every day.
more and a lot more power stations need to be built in the next 15 years.

bearing in mind how long HS2 is taking then we’re doomed lol
The wind generators are being paid over £1m per week in constraint payments due to lack of demand. The pumped storage stations at Cruachan and Dinorwig
deal with peaks in demand, such as kettles going on at the end of popular tv programmes.
With ev ranges nudging 300 miles daily charging will only be required for vehicles which travel that kind of distance each day.
 
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Bobajob

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 1, 2019
270
122
Cornwall
E-cars don't need lots more power stations. Go though the eight pages of this thread to read my replies to all those who think the way you do and you'll see there is no problem.

For starters e-cars carry out almost all their charging at night and they all have charge timers. And they aren't greedy like i.c. cars, the equivalent cost of 200 mpg is easy, and even 400 mpg from some night electricity deals. Only today one energy company is offering the equivalent of 500 mpg compared with a 30 mpg i.c. car. That's because there's so much electricity available during the night it's embarrassing since power stations can't just be shut down in a instant so they need to get rid of the surplus.

And in future e-cars not being used will be supplying the grid at times of high demand, they already do in Denmark and the same is being planned for here. Nissan and one of the energy companies have just launched a government backed trial scheme.

And we only buy 2 million cars a year so replacing our 30 million I.C. ones would take 15 years even if all of us only buy e-cars. But we won't of course, for 15 years many will still buy i.c. ones while they can. So the demand for more current will be very gradual.

Charging stations will be providing a lot of their own solar power anyway. One fully open by the A9 in Scotland can charge 26 cars at a time and supplies 30% of the power needed from it's solar roofing. Here's a photo of it:

View attachment 37779
Thanks for that flecc I only quoted what this top guy was saying about the lack of power stations. More than likely I’ve read an old article which is now defunct.
 
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nigelbb

Pedelecer
Sep 19, 2019
141
132
Roof some of that new housing with solar panels and the problem just becomes one of storage. Ok, December or Feb might be a bit rough, but offshore wind will help there, unless it blows away. I only did the garage south side roof, and for 8 months of the year I can heat my water (with electric) and still come out net 0 (in during the day, out at night). Would need 25+KwH of storage to smooth 'all' the dips though (99% of them), which would be quite a few pedelecs, but only 1 electric car .. and it might be flat at some point I wanted it.
How much did those solar panels cost & what is their lifespan?