"Police stat shows that 260 electric powered bicycles were seized by officers last year"

lenny

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May 3, 2023
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"The number of illegal e-bikes being ridden on the streets of Britain has doubled in the space of just one year, it has been revealed."

"Christine White, whose father Jim Blackwood was killed in Kent when an e-bike rider hit him on the pavement, told The Telegraph: 'E-bikes are potentially lethal, and have become almost impossible to control."


 

Tony1951

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Mar 27, 2016
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The problem mentioned above is that Mr Blackwood was hit on the pavement by a person riding a bike - the motor is as like as not an irrelevance, though it is obviously an even worse example of yob behaviour. That's the issue really: Yobs. Yobs on foot; yobs on skates; yobs on scooters and yobs on bikes of all kinds.

I say the motor is an irrelevance to the degree of injury, because any young man of reasonable size and fitness, can ride a standard bicycle fast enough to easily do someone a very nasty injury, especially if they are frail through age or any other reason. Most of my life I could easily ride for at least a few miles at twenty miles an hour. 14 stone combined of me and a bike hitting you on a pavement will do you no good at all. That's why I don't do it. Whether a bike cuts off at 15.6 miles an hour or 20 miles an hour is an irrelevance, though it probably requires twice the motor power to accomplish that 5 mile an hour difference.

It is all wrong to focus on the electric motor, or marginal differences in power output as the harmful feature. The harmful feature is the YOB behaviour - riding on a pedestrian only path in this case.

Today I was in Newcastle and as usual in a well healed middle class district, I saw two men riding the rapid electric scooters (hire scooters - classed as motor vehicles) along pedestrian only pavements - this when the road was almost empty on Easter Sunday morning at about nine o clock after the clocks had been put forward. There was no excuse and no need at all for this.

The very worst outcome of all this, is the who-ha about whether the bike precisely meets the pedelec regulations in every degree. The REAL issue is really bad riding practices, and endangering other people by riding up behind them at 15 miles an hour on a pavement. Riding on pavements by adults is happening in all the cities I see, and no one is doing anything about stopping it.
 

Benjahmin

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Nov 10, 2014
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Riding on pavements by adults is happening in all the cities I see, and no one is doing anything about stopping it.
That's because there was a statement from the minister of transport some time ago (Flecc will know exactly) saying that a bike could be ridden on the pavement if the rider felt in danger from the traffic on the road. This leaves the police with a problem because there is no way of quantifying how a person feels.
This is further muddied by the proliferation of shared use paths.
Both factors cloud the waters and are a typical modern british work around fudge rather than admit that infrastructure might need some serious tweeking.
I do, however agree, that there is a dreadful, selfish sense of entitlement in a lot of peoples behaviour. What happened to, I fear now seen as old fashioned, concepts like respect, consideration and social spirit. These cannot be legislated for and can only come from a ground up swell across society.
 

Tony1951

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Mar 27, 2016
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You might be right, except that this is not a new situation. It has been building for years and getting worse. Also - what a minister 'says' is not the law and it makes no difference to the police policy if a minister says something ridiculous like that - albeit that some individuals may take it as permission to do the thing spoken of.
 
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Tony1951

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Mar 27, 2016
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I do, however agree, that there is a dreadful, selfish sense of entitlement in a lot of peoples behaviour. What happened to, I fear now seen as old fashioned, concepts like respect, consideration and social spirit. These cannot be legislated for and can only come from a ground up swell across society.
Yes - completely right. I drive cars, motorbikes, electric bikes and traditional cycles and I see yobs behaving abominably in every category.
 
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StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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When I used to commute to college\work by cycle, from maybe the mid 1970s, to then stopping a few years and then using the Bromptom for train\work commute from around the year 2000, then of course I saw a lot of irresponsible riding. Whilst some of the daft stuff over those years put the cyclist at risk, it was not that common to see the public in general put at risk.

Since the electric bike era, I now see riding, mostly from eBike users, that is definetly putting the public at risk on an almost daily basis.

Odd.
 
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StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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I do, however agree, that there is a dreadful, selfish sense of entitlement in a lot of peoples behaviour. What happened to, I fear now seen as old fashioned, concepts like respect, consideration and social spirit. These cannot be legislated for and can only come from a ground up swell across society.
Absolutly agree.

Unfortunatly a lot people in society these days see law breaking as the norm and perfectly acceptable, plenty of examples of that in posts here.

The common attitude is that of course 'serious' law breakers should be prosecuted, but 'minor' law breakers should not be 'persecuted'.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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That's because there was a statement from the minister of transport some time ago (Flecc will know exactly) saying that a bike could be ridden on the pavement if the rider felt in danger from the traffic on the road. This leaves the police with a problem because there is no way of quantifying how a person feels.
This is further muddied by the proliferation of shared use paths.
Both factors cloud the waters and are a typical modern british work around fudge rather than admit that infrastructure might need some serious tweeking.
I do, however agree, that there is a dreadful, selfish sense of entitlement in a lot of peoples behaviour. What happened to, I fear now seen as old fashioned, concepts like respect, consideration and social spirit. These cannot be legislated for and can only come from a ground up swell across society.
In this list of reasons why I don't cycle on pavements, I forgot to mention people using their phones while walking their dogs, which find themselves distressed and confused because they're suddenly forced into becoming guide dogs with no training. Disguised as a pedestrian, I was almost bitten last week - the deadhead owner didn't even look up from his phone until I'd yelled a second time. It was all rather horribly traumatic.

I can't stand it - people walking out of terraced houses right out in front, dog walkers, kids, toys, escooters, drivers or passengers exiting cars, cats, squirrels, foxes, badgers, birds, rats and other cyclists, rabbits sometimes, hedgehogs, frogs too, bagged and unbagged dog doo doo, slippy wet plastic bags which might have contained dog doo doo, confetti, condoms, big squishy and slippy worms and slugs, rotting discarded part eaten food, branches bricks sticks and stones, people walking out from between vehicles, nervous ill or drunk pedestrians who might lurch or wobble over in any direction, the horrible state of pavements, the madness of wheelie bin street clutter days, scrap metal and dead appliances left out, protuding tree roots etc. etc. It's faster and safer by road.
...muggers, poles for signeage too close together to ride through, hypodermic needles, pools of vomit, small nitrous oxide popper cans, mattresses, gobtoppers and other balls, conkers, pine cones, odd bits of wood or plastic and other materials, discarded vapes which might explode like land mines when you ride over them etc. etc. It's deffo safer cycling on the road.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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You might be right, except that this is not a new situation. It has been building for years and getting worse. Also - what a minister 'says' is not the law and it makes no difference to the police policy if a minister says something ridiculous like that - albeit that some individuals may take it as permission to do the thing spoken of.
Incorrect, a ministerial permission is operationally law and has to be obeyed by the police when they are instructed accordingly.

Such recent permissions are the year 2000 permission to cycle on pavements when in fear of traffic, the year 2013 permission to regularise the 250 watts in place of the British law's 200 by ordering the police to accept the variation in watts, and the 2019 order that an EAPC could through type approval have a fully acting thottle and be still treated as a bicycle for all purposes, despite that being contrary to the law.

In fact since Section 65 of the Highways Act 1980 was passed into law 44 years ago, permitting shared use pavements, it has been government policy for cyclists to make more use of the often largely empty pavements.
.
 

saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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The reason that police are seizing double the number of illegal bikes every year is not because the number of illegal bikes is increasing. It's because the police have doubled their very miniscule effort to seize them.

It's the same argument that the commies use: There are more people using food banks today than there have ever been. That's nothing to do with how many people need free food. It's simply that there are more food banks than ever before. If somebody offers free stuff, people will come and get it.
 

guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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There are more people using food banks today than there have ever been. That's nothing to do with how many people need free food. It's simply that there are more food banks than ever before. If somebody offers free stuff, people will come and get it.
The fat ones shouldn't be given even more food to eat. I have yet to see fat measuring calipers and bathroom scales being widely used by food banks, but hope to someday. Or extremely narrow doors.
 
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Woosh

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The reason that police are seizing double the number of illegal bikes every year is not because the number of illegal bikes is increasing. It's because the police have doubled their very miniscule effort to seize them.

It's the same argument that the commies use: There are more people using food banks today than there have ever been. That's nothing to do with how many people need free food. It's simply that there are more food banks than ever before. If somebody offers free stuff, people will come and get it.
Demand for free food still outstrips supply while the bulk of taxes are paid by those who work for their income, the richer you are, the smaller portion of your income goes to taxes.
 

lenny

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 3, 2023
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It's the same argument that the commies use: There are more people using food banks today than there have ever been. That's nothing to do with how many people need free food. It's simply that there are more food banks than ever before. If somebody offers free stuff, people will come and get it.
 

soundwave

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May 23, 2015
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every dealer i know dongle there own bikes :eek:
 

StuartsProjects

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May 9, 2021
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I haven’t seen a legal pedelec on the road or pavement for a few years now.
I see the legal ones all the time, they are mostly in the majority.

So I know it sounds completly and utelrly weird on this forum but I believe there are in the UK still at least a couple of people who believe being legal and sticking to the rules is good.
 
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guerney

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Sep 7, 2021
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I maybe have missed something, is there a competition in process to see who can make the most offensive (political) post ?
A friend of mine volunteers at a food bank, he's handed food to many obese people. Obesity is sometimes due to poor diet and malnutrition, but sadly it's simply excess calories which creates obesity in the western world. And I say that as someone who has lost a lot of weight. From my perspective, there's no valid reason to be fat. It's a choice.
 

soundwave

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 23, 2015
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plod round here gets there McDonalds ect delivered to there car door buy a 2-3kkw hub motor bike there fkn everywhere.

tho i have only ever seen about 3-4 sur rons tho and those nut jobs on those one wheel thing in-between there legs fkn thing left me for dust and no crash helmet of course same as all the rest.