Posties to loose their bikes

[cogs]

Sorry Cogs, but avoiding change is a pipe dream, things just cannot carry on as they were in the past. The whole nature of the business that the Royal Mail postal service does has fundamentally changed and the way in which they handle that different business imposed on them by progress has to change as well if they are to compete with the private sector.

There was a time when a postie carried very large numbers of light and lucrative envelopes, now much of what they carry is often quite large packages, bulked out by low income junk mail. They have to have new ways of transporting enough daily to get the income the organisation needs to maintain a universal national service.
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Contrary to the implication of your post flecc, I imagine that there are many posties who would favour a degree of change - but there may be disagreement about its nature. For example, many might favour changing the injustice in the circumstances that saw fat cat 'high up' Adam Crozier walk away from the Post with a £2 million bonus (paid by the public purse) for axing 60,000 jobs in his period as boss..

Many might also have concerns about, and would like to see some sort of change that would prevent 'elite' cash guzzlers like Crozier picking up at least £14 million for his new job at ITV?

It seems to me that there are always those around (like Crozier and his supporters) who call for belt tightening and change amongst those who do the work, but are then quick to decry any call for change if it remotely affects their own greed induced circumstances..

 

[Alex728]

Then the answer is bicycle trailers,
Bikes and Trailers: shopping, load and dog trailers for bicycles

Some of the payloads are 50kg trailer and 200kg trolley

SIMPLES!

not when the Royal Mail has lost the enthusiasm and goodwill of their staff in the race towards cut throat competition.

TBH I think its a lost cause trying to get posties back on bikes (as much for the change in business as any political reasons) - the least worst would be to encourage use of electric vans where practicable (a tried and tested solution in the dairy industry!) - and maybe other local businesses with known and standard volumes/dimensions of deliveries (groceries?) to work with Pashley to use electrified versions of their bikes to deliver their goods.

 

[flecc]

Then the answer is bicycle trailers,

Not where I live! There's an average of five miles between the sorting office and the large population centres of my area and the northernmost ridge of the North Downs is in between. Years ago when they used bikes the posties had to push them up there in each direction, bad enough with their old envelope loads, but with today's heavy packages and junk mail load, just not on, even with 250 watts assistance.

Much of Britain has hills and distances that make load bikes with or without trailers impractical.

We've had new working methods for some while in my area, and they obviously work and are efficient. One van delivers up to six posties with double loads to their delivery area storage boxes where one load is dumped in the store while the first is delivered. After dropping all the other posties, the driver, also a postie, delivers his single round and then runs round the route again picking up all the others as they finish their loads. Then it's quickly back to the sorting office with them all relaxed in the van, protected from the weather.

That's quicker, more economical and efficient than half a dozen e-bikes carrying less and taking a whole lot longer, and the van's life will be far greater than that of hard worked e-bikes, and with lower maintenance requirements overall. The posties seem happy too, I've had the same young postman for some years now.
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[flecc]

Contrary to the implication of your post flecc, I imagine that there are many posties who would favour a degree of change - but there may be disagreement about its nature. For example, many might favour changing the injustice in the circumstances that saw fat cat 'high up' Adam Crozier walk away from the Post with a £2 million bonus (paid by the public purse) for axing 60,000 jobs in his period as boss..

Many might also have concerns about, and would like to see some sort of change that would prevent 'elite' cash guzzlers like Crozier picking up at least £14 million for his new job at ITV?

It seems to me that there are always those around (like Crozier and his supporters) who call for belt tightening and change amongst those who do the work, but are then quick to decry any call for change if it remotely affects their own greed induced circumstances..

A very different issue again!!

Whether Crozier and his ilk are greedy or not, and I fully agree they are, and whether society's business structure enables such greed, and it does, are irrelevent to the need for the post office to change.

It only matters that the changes are necessary and right, it doesn't matter what nature of human being implements them.

Neither is the issue of what the workers would prefer necessarily relevant. Almost all employees would prefer to sit on their backsides for the shortest possible number of hours and collect the highest possible wage, and none of us are different in that respect! But unfortunately the world cannot work that way.
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[Northern Irelander]

Not where I live! There's an average of five miles between the sorting office and the large population centres of my area and the northernmost ridge of the North Downs is in between. Years ago when they used bikes the posties had to push them up there in each direction, bad enough with their old envelope loads, but with today's heavy packages and junk mail load, just not on, even with 250 watts assistance.

Much of Britain has hills and distances that make load bikes with or without trailers impractical.

We've had new working methods for some while in my area, and they obviously work and are efficient. One van delivers up to six posties with double loads to their delivery area storage boxes where one load is dumped in the store while the first is delivered. After dropping all the other posties, the driver, also a postie, delivers his single round and then runs round the route again picking up all the others as they finish their loads. Then it's quickly back to the sorting office with them all relaxed in the van, protected from the weather.

That's quicker, more economical and efficient than half a dozen e-bikes carrying less and taking a whole lot longer, and the van's life will be far greater than that of hard worked e-bikes, and with lower maintenance requirements overall. The posties seem happy too, I've had the same young postman for some years now.
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Yes I can vouch for the drumlins (Co. Down)......... part of my daily commute.

Speaking to my posty, he luvs the pashley, sadly he is in the minority and if bosses asked the work force................ which do you prefer bicycles or vans? I think we know the answer.

But in essence, is a van load of posties, getting back to HQ by early afternoon going to improve service for you/me the customer? and lower postal tariffs, which have been creeping up and up by stealth.

After the last strike horlix, I would seriously consider using a competitor, then there would be no vans or bicycles.



What about cycle couriers, there's an efficient system that works cross town, faster than any van

 

[flecc]

But in essence, is a van load of posties, getting back to HQ by early afternoon going to improve service for you/me the customer? and lower postal tariffs, which have been creeping up and up by stealth.

At the present it's more about survival and maintaining some sort of national service, rather than any chance of improving service. It's likely that we can never get back to the service levels that existed before e-mail and internet shopping changed the world. It's not the post office to blame for the changes. it's us! We were the ones who chose to change the way we communicated and shopped, so we only have ourselves to blame for the outcome.

What about cycle couriers, there's an efficient system that works cross town, faster than any van

That would have worked in the old pre-email world of letters, but it won't with the large loads of packages and junk mail that today's post office survives on. In any case, it's an expensive service more suited to urgent and important stuff.
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[Alex728]

That would have worked in the old pre-email world of letters, but it won't with the large loads of packages and junk mail that today's post office survives on. In any case, it's an expensive service more suited to urgent and important stuff.
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I remember one main use of bicycle couriers (in London) was to deliver tape cassettes and spools of film to and from TV companies and edit suites or to playout centres (traditionaly in W1 and near the Telecom Tower) - but today even this can now all go "down the wire", particularly rushes and rough cuts... (its also why telly production is moving away from London)

there's also lots more ways of sending a secure scanned document for other business needs.

 

[Mussels]

But in essence, is a van load of posties, getting back to HQ by early afternoon going to improve service for you/me the customer? and lower postal tariffs, which have been creeping up and up by stealth.

That's a lot of what the last industrial action was about. Posties used to finish when the round was done so many started very early, that has been effectively stopped and wouldn't work anyway with them being shipped around in minibuses.

 

[stewart]

The post office does things in certain ways because it works, has done for 100 years or more. Bikes are part of this, maybe not everywhere.

As I understand it the Post Office is being undermined by 'young men in a hurry' Crozier types because it has already been promised to Dutch company TNT. Mandelson is itching to privatise it, but has been stopped by that last strike which pushed the unpopular programme into the forthcoming election.

After the election it will be £1.20+ for a first class stamp, no universal delivery and pricier internet package deliveries. Transient staff will constantly nick your mail. This is the choice you will have, just like courier companies - all pricy, none better than any other.

On another note, how successful would most internet selling in the UK be if it didnt rely on the publicly underwrtiten universal postage system?

So basically, e-bikes would make it easier on staff, but bikes will always favour the stop/ start of doorstep delvieries. I note that my milkman still uses the E-van (milk float) - it works, and its cheap.

Stewart

 

[cogs]

The post office does things in certain ways because it works, has done for 100 years or more. Bikes are part of this, maybe not everywhere.

As I understand it the Post Office is being undermined by 'young men in a hurry' Crozier types because it has already been promised to Dutch company TNT. Mandelson is itching to privatise it, but has been stopped by that last strike which pushed the unpopular programme into the forthcoming election.

After the election it will be £1.20+ for a first class stamp, no universal delivery and pricier internet package deliveries. Transient staff will constantly nick your mail. This is the choice you will have, just like courier companies - all pricy, none better than any other.

On another note, how successful would most internet selling in the UK be if it didnt rely on the publicly underwrtiten universal postage system?

So basically, e-bikes would make it easier on staff, but bikes will always favour the stop/ start of doorstep delvieries. I note that my milkman still uses the E-van (milk float) - it works, and its cheap.

Stewart

A reasonable assessment I would say.

I too have often noticed how those who have 'change' as an agenda usually equate progress with price and profit increases allied to reductions in service provision.

Battery bikes and supply vehicles in the Post would be brilliant.

 

[lemmy]

Battery bikes and supply vehicles in the Post would be brilliant.

Very expensive to run, though. Mile for mile and assuming my e-bike battery lasts 2 years, my Peugeot diesel costs far less to run. And that will carry 5 people - or a vast amount of post!

 

[flecc]

Very expensive to run, though. Mile for mile and assuming my e-bike battery lasts 2 years, my Peugeot diesel costs far less to run. And that will carry 5 people - or a vast amount of post!

This is obviously what the post office have decided after a very long study and trial of electric alternatives. The diesel crew vans they are using now are a more economical option and with staff benefits as well, as I pointed out above.
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[cogs]

This is obviously what the post office have decided after a very long study and trial of electric alternatives. The diesel crew vans they are using now are a more economical option and with staff benefits as well, as I pointed out above.
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Yes, screw the carbon footprint and human scale

lets go for the realistic and 'economic' option - however dreary..

 

[flecc]

I note that my milkman still uses the E-van (milk float) - it works, and its cheap.

Stewart

I'm not sure how Cogs thinks a wild alarmist statement like a £1.20 first class post is a "reasonable assessment".

However, I'm glad you mentioned electric milk floats since that shows how fallacious your entire argument is.

Over much and probably most of the country now, the electric milk float has disappeared. Even in my heavily populated London borough the proportion of customers wanting milk delivered is so small that they are too far apart for a round to be possible within an electric float's range. Therefore the dairies have done the sensible thing and changed their business model, using diesel floats instead.

They've responded to their changed circumstances and that's what the Post Office has to do.

To say something that was good enough for 100 years is still valid now is patently nonsense when it was losing the Post Office vast sums of money every year. The new methods are now putting them back into profitability, clear evidence of the need for change.

Almost nothing from 100 years ago is still working in any commercial sphere, great grandad's day is over.
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[flecc]

Yes, screw the carbon footprint and human scale

lets go for the realistic and 'economic' option - however dreary..

They are trying a few e-vans, but it's hardly their fault that the technology isn't up to scratch yet. In any case, they are far too expensive to buy or run at present, so what's the point of driving themselves back into loss making again?

The business has to be viable to continue, and that means using the methods that work. It really is that simple.

Of course that upsets the Marxists and luddites, but that's their normal state of mind anyway.
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[Alex728]

Over much and probably most of the country now, the electric milk float has disappeared. Even in my heavily populated London borough the proportion of customers wanting milk delivered is so small that they are too far apart for a round to be possible within an electric float's range. Therefore the dairies have done the sensible thing and changed their business model, using diesel floats instead.

They've responded to their changed circumstaces and that's what the Post Office has to do..

There are loads of electric milk floats still in active use in Ipswich.

I think this depends on the demographics of the people, there are still a lot more traditional family groups in houses (parents+children (sometimes even grown up kids)+ dog and cat(s)), so a greater demand for milk per household, whilst London has many more singletons. its also more multicultural and many races don't have conventional Western breakfast cereals or take milk with their tea!

if the loss of the post bikes is actually being offset by less motor journeys into town to pick up items now purchased online its surely a net environmental gain?

 

[cogs]

They are trying a few e-vans, but it's hardly their fault that the technology isn't up to scratch yet. In any case, they are far too expensive to buy or run at present, so what's the point of driving themselves back into loss making again?

The business has to be viable to continue, and that means using the methods that work. It really is that simple.

Of course that upsets the Marxists and luddites, but that's their normal state of mind anyway.
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This particular luddite feels a need to offer another history lesson for the benefit of those who consider that the only yardstick worthy of consideration is that of profitability

The Luddites were not opposed to technical progress. Their conventional reputation as machine breaking king Canutes is not justified by the historic facts. True enough, some looms were smashed, but as often their activities were more directly political and did not involve anti machine vandalism.

Their true objective was to prevent the introduction of the 'free market' political economy, which was undermining the then existing norm of fixed price production (in textiles at least). Their families were slowly being starved out of existence by the cruelty and inhumanity of the factory system..

They acted out of desperation, and from a conscious belief that they could act to change the world into a better place.

In many respects, I wish they had won. The 'free market' remains an unpredictable abomination that may yet take us into the jaws of hell.

In the mean time though, electric bike posties (and delivery vehicles) retain my affection.

 

[flecc]

Yes. I knew the history Cogs, as I do the falsehood about King Canute, but like most, I use these terms in their widely recognised senses.

The concept of your having affection for mythical beasts like electric bike posties does amuse though.
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[Mussels]

There are loads of electric milk floats still in active use in Ipswich.

I think this depends on the demographics of the people, there are still a lot more traditional family groups in houses (parents+children (sometimes even grown up kids)+ dog and cat(s)), so a greater demand for milk per household, whilst London has many more singletons. its also more multicultural and many races don't have conventional Western breakfast cereals or take milk with their tea!

if the loss of the post bikes is actually being offset by less motor journeys into town to pick up items now purchased online its surely a net environmental gain?

I use a lot of milk and could have it delivered daily but I can't see the point in having it left on the doorstep to go off in summer when I can save money, buy it in a shop and stick it in the fridge.
Perhaps in the days before fridges it needed to be fresh every day but not anymore.

 

[Alex728]

I use a lot of milk and could have it delivered daily but I can't see the point in having it left on the doorstep to go off in summer when I can save money, buy it in a shop and stick it in the fridge.
Perhaps in the days before fridges it needed to be fresh every day but not anymore.

I've noticed the change to diesel vans in SE England and London but the milko with the traditional electric van is still thriving here. I was surprised to still see them but they remain popular.. There's a lot of people who have an "early to bed, early to rise" lifestyle round here and a cold wind from the North Sea even in high summer so I expect the milk doesn't get much time to go off..

Ironically many of those people are getting up early to commute to London!