Priceless, so simple for small businesses to sort out. Good old BREXIT!

richtea99

Pedelecer
May 8, 2020
159
123
What's weight got to do with duty?
(Unless they intend to estimate if a consignment actually contains what the doc says, of course - i.e. 10 bikes at 25Kg each should weigh 250Kg, so let's weigh it and see...)
 

pentiumofborg

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2020
625
168
What's weight got to do with duty?
(Unless they intend to estimate if a consignment actually contains what the doc says, of course - i.e. 10 bikes at 25Kg each should weigh 250Kg, so let's weigh it and see...)
If it's disproportionately heavy: Gold or Uranium smuggling? If different: drugs or money?
 
Last edited:

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
15,496
13,147
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
weight column is used in HMRC's statistics - like how many tons of crustaceans have been exported in 2021 etc.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
15,496
13,147
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
brexit is good for my business... can't bite the hand that feeds you,,,
 

pentiumofborg

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2020
625
168
brexit is good for my business... can't bite the hand that feeds you,,,

Hope you don't mind my asking, how brexit is good for your business?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
15,496
13,147
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
Hope you don't mind my asking, how brexit is good for your business?
Chinese bikes are subject to unjust anti-dumping. 85% on top of the landed cost of the bike. 10% is fair but 85%?
Now we have left the customs union, anti-dumping measures have to be revised and likely removed soon.
Another area that has been a thorn in my foot for years: EU VAT rules for transnational shipping. A giant loophole for those who cheat on VAT: a drop shipper in Germany can send a Chinese bike without charging VAT to a UK customer. How can I compete with the cheats? Now they can't.
 

pentiumofborg

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2020
625
168
Chinese bikes are subject to unjust anti-dumping. 85% on top of the landed cost of the bike. 10% is fair but 85%?
Now we have left the customs union, anti-dumping measures have to be revised and likely removed soon.

On the other hand, a protectionist UK gov could increase or maintain the anti-dumping - especially if the USA continue their trade war.

A giant loophole for those who cheat on VAT: a drop shipper in Germany can send a Chinese bike without charging VAT to a UK customer. How can I compete with the cheats? Now they can't.

That describes the seller I bought my Bafang kit from! If I had known of your existence, I would have bought from you - because you seem to charge about the same, and you're more local - but I am the customer from hell, so maybe not ideal from your point of view. I am terrible; a truly awful customer. If I were me, I wouldn't sell myself a thing!

Why not set up a separate business in Germany and sell from a virtual office to the UK? Avoid corporation tax and out-dropship the buggers!
 
Last edited:

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
15,496
13,147
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
  • Like
Reactions: pentiumofborg

pentiumofborg

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2020
625
168
Netflix has a film, 'Carbon', inspired from a real event.
Fraudsters netted £133 billions (133 billions, 133,000,000,000. No, it's not a mistake) from the EU in VAT by the same faulty rule.
HMRC cracks down on gangs over renewable energy VAT fraud | HMRC | The Guardian


I wasn't suggesting such terrible fraud!


. A giant loophole for those who cheat on VAT: a drop shipper in Germany can send a Chinese bike without charging VAT to a UK customer. How can I compete with the cheats? Now they can't.

I believe that if you separate your business into several sections, you can avoid a higher rate of tax. And if one arm is in Germany ("Wooshy", "Wooshlike", "Mr. Woosh" Bikes Germany?), you can dropship from there like your ebike-kit shipping competitors... and continue to assemble and sell your bikes in the UK as a separate business... then give me 40% of all of your future profits as a tip, for the tip ;)
 
Last edited:
  • :D
Reactions: Woosh

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,841
1,842
65
Sevenoaks Kent
Chinese bikes are subject to unjust anti-dumping. 85% on top of the landed cost of the bike. 10% is fair but 85%?
Now we have left the customs union, anti-dumping measures have to be revised and likely removed soon.
Another area that has been a thorn in my foot for years: EU VAT rules for transnational shipping. A giant loophole for those who cheat on VAT: a drop shipper in Germany can send a Chinese bike without charging VAT to a UK customer. How can I compete with the cheats? Now they can't.
Sorry to say that the UK Government have already announced that we will be continuing to use the EU's anti dumping rules for the foreseeable future and there is nothing so far that implies that we will ever change.

German companies should always have charged VAT unless they were given a VAT number from a UK company.

All the best, David
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Woosh

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,841
1,842
65
Sevenoaks Kent
Sorry to say that the UK Government have already announced that we will be continuing to use the EU's anti dumping rules for the foreseeable future and there is nothing so far that implies that we will ever change.

German companies should always have charged VAT unless they were given a VAT number from a UK company.

All the best, David
Dear ****,

As you are aware, our recent call for evidence examining the justification for transitioning the EU anti-dumping measure on bikes (AD287) concluded that the market share threshold was not met and that the measure should not be maintained. Our reassessment of the data, following appeal, upheld that conclusion.

Subsequently, the Department has received further evidence from interested parties. We again assessed this new evidence against the criteria for the assessment as to whether an existing EU measure mattered to the UK, as with other transition measures, which is as follows:

1.We received an application to maintain measures from UK businesses which produce, in the UK, products subject to trade remedies measures;

2.The application is supported by UK businesses which produced a sufficient proportion of those products (this mirrors the tests required by the WTO Anti-Dumping Agreement, Article 5.4, and the WTO Subsidies and Countervailing Measures Agreement, Article 11.4, regarding initiating new trade remedies investigations); and that,

3.The market share of the UK based producers of those products is above 1%.

We can now confirm that, having considered this further evidence, we have concluded that the above three criteria are now met and we will take steps to transition AD287 from 11:00pm on 31 December 2020.

We have also received additional information regarding the UK manufacture of e-bikes and, after consideration, have concluded that the above three criteria are also met with regard to e-bikes measures AD643 and AS646 and we will therefore also take the necessary steps to transition these measures.

In summary, therefore, the following bike-related measures will be transitioned:

1.Anti-dumping measure AD287 on bikes imported from China (extended to Cambodia, India, Malaysia, Pakistan, Philippines, Sri Lanka and Tunisia) a.This also includes duties on certain bike parts originating in China, and any definitive exemptions to these duties that the EU have put in place

2.Anti-dumping measure AD643 on e-bikes imported from China

3.Anti-subsidy measure AD646 on e-bikes imported from China

Kind regards,
The DIT Trade Remedies Team
(Department for International Trade)

*************************

There can be no further appeals or reconsideration, so on this we do finally now have certainty for 1st Jan 2021.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Woosh

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
15,496
13,147
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
the DIT have to transition all anti-dumping measures but they will have to be revised sooner or later.
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,841
1,842
65
Sevenoaks Kent
The UK ebike manufacturer was of course Brompton! I for one think the figures are wrong. I would suggest that we do not produce 1 in a hundred ebikes in the UK.

Interesting to read that they will not entertain an appeal!

All the best, David
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Scorpio

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
15,496
13,147
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
  • Informative
Reactions: Wisper Bikes

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,841
1,842
65
Sevenoaks Kent
I’ve had a response...

“Dear David,

Blimey!

I've not heard anything about that - it may be someone has found that on an old web page. Current one says:

Electric bicyclesAD643 China Maintained
Electric bicyclesAS646 China Maintained

Here:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/trade-remedies-transition-policy#anti-dumping-and-anti-subsidy-trade-remedy-measures

HOWEVER - I've just done another chase today to work out why the maintained UK measures are not seemingly in force (no mention on Trade Tariff) despite the legal notices for the Uk measures being published on 31 Dec and seemingly having legal effect as soon as the old EU measures ceased.

I've also had a couple of reports now of shipments which should have been subject to ADD being allowed to clear customs without it being applied at all... but the risk is that when the customs system catches up, ADD could be charged retrospectively to those importers.... trying to get clarity either way ASAP!”

I hope this helps.

All the best, David
 

pentiumofborg

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2020
625
168
Thanks for that, as you can see it is contrary to the information that I have been given. I will
check into it.

All the best, David

Why not highlight the issue with a tie-in with Wispa chocolates? Your R&D team could make a chocolate version of your favourite bicycle frame using melted down Wispa chocolate bars and make it rideable by freezing with liquid nitrogen, to deliver a highly publicised and populated petition to 10 Downing Street. Of course, I want 40% of any resulting increase in your future profits as a tip, for the tip ;)
 

Wisper Bikes

Trade Member
Apr 11, 2007
5,841
1,842
65
Sevenoaks Kent
Why not highlight the issue with a tie-in with Wispa chocolates? Your R&D team could make a chocolate version of your favourite bicycle frame using melted down Wispa chocolate bars and make it rideable by freezing with liquid nitrogen, to deliver a highly publicised and populated petition to 10 Downing Street. Of course, I want 40% of any resulting increase in your future profits as a tip, for the tip ;)
Brilliant! Utterly brilliant! Thanks, may I have your bank details?

All the best, David
 
  • :D
Reactions: pentiumofborg