Prices of the electricity we use to charge
- Thread starter flecc
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If all you do is listening, we'll go nowhere.
Starmer has to find workable solutions. Farage doesn't.
I watched Attenborough's new film last month in Hexham. It was too long, and too self referential for my liking, but the message he was putting across was shocking and enough to make you despair of the human race and its impact.
The most important points could have been made in twenty minutes EASILY. The film was an hour and a half long. The message was stark. We saw huge forests of kelp and plant life, stuffed with fish in areas where bottom trawling was not carried out. The scenes looked literally like tropical jungles of plants and masses and masses of fish and sea creatures. That is what the shallow ocean should look like. THEN, we saw the same areas after the bottom trawlers had been over them. There was nothing left. The place looked like Gaza and worse. Just shattered remains and rocks and dead stuff. It was the Garden of Eden transformed into a desert of ruination. There were no fish.
Before bottom trawling -
The catch taken in causing this disaster, was mostly thrown over the side of the big factory ship that was dragging ploughs of steel plates over the sea bed and killing everything that was there. Thousands of horse power devoted to literally destroying the sea bed and everything that was there. The site of dead sea creatures of every kind being tossed over the side was appalling. All they wanted was the scallops.
I remember going on a fishing and cottage holiday with my sons on the Isle of Skye thirty some years ago. We took a small boat up there and tried for mackerel. We were talking to the locals who fished up there and they were up in arms about foreign trawlers which for a year or two back then were bottom trawling Loch Dunvegan for scallops. They were saying back in the 1990s that once that loch had been stuffed with mackerel in the summer so that in ten minutes you could catch a bucket full and take them home, but that now, since this hooligan trawling on the bottom had gone on, the lock was virtually dead. Everything was destroyed where they went.
This should be banned.
The most important points could have been made in twenty minutes EASILY. The film was an hour and a half long. The message was stark. We saw huge forests of kelp and plant life, stuffed with fish in areas where bottom trawling was not carried out. The scenes looked literally like tropical jungles of plants and masses and masses of fish and sea creatures. That is what the shallow ocean should look like. THEN, we saw the same areas after the bottom trawlers had been over them. There was nothing left. The place looked like Gaza and worse. Just shattered remains and rocks and dead stuff. It was the Garden of Eden transformed into a desert of ruination. There were no fish.
Before bottom trawling -
The catch taken in causing this disaster, was mostly thrown over the side of the big factory ship that was dragging ploughs of steel plates over the sea bed and killing everything that was there. Thousands of horse power devoted to literally destroying the sea bed and everything that was there. The site of dead sea creatures of every kind being tossed over the side was appalling. All they wanted was the scallops.
I remember going on a fishing and cottage holiday with my sons on the Isle of Skye thirty some years ago. We took a small boat up there and tried for mackerel. We were talking to the locals who fished up there and they were up in arms about foreign trawlers which for a year or two back then were bottom trawling Loch Dunvegan for scallops. They were saying back in the 1990s that once that loch had been stuffed with mackerel in the summer so that in ten minutes you could catch a bucket full and take them home, but that now, since this hooligan trawling on the bottom had gone on, the lock was virtually dead. Everything was destroyed where they went.
This should be banned.
Attachments
You should know that France bans fishing for scallops from 15 May to 1st October every year to protect the species while uk doesn't.
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Marine Protected Areas (MPAs)
France has over 500 MPAs covering both coastal and offshore zones.
These zones often ban or limit fishing to allow ecosystems to recover.
France also limits days at sea and engine power in some fisheries to reduce pressure.
France needs to be out of OUR waters NOW!
They are among the most predatory fishing fleet in these parts.
I can't go to France and start commandeering grapes or fruit and just picking it. How come we have EVER allowed French and other foreign European trawlers to come here and fish in our territorial waters. FK 'EM!!!!
The most outrageous thing I heard this year as an insult to Britain, was that before we could bring our forces to the European defence pact - we had to lay down before that stumpy bas tard Macron, and let his fishing fleet rape our sea bed for another twelve years.
It's a joke. Our armed forces may have been hugely weakened, but along with the French, we have the only credible armed forces in Europe right now. The idea that we would be expected to make concessions to bring our army into harms way to defend them is an outrage.
I HATE these European politicians so much, I would sever ALL connection with them.
I don't care how much trade we lost. I don't care if my income was halved.
The answer is obvious, we must develop fish farming by dealing with its problems.
We used to take all our meat from the wild, many in Africa and the Amazon still do, but that was and remains unsustainable, so we developed animal husbandry to high degrees of sophistication. We need to do the same with fish, a few already have for a variety of fish species, but much more needs to be done.
Of course some maintain a better answer is substitution by artificial means, but having tried every meat substitute to date, I rate all of them as total failures and can't imagine how we'll be any better with fish substitutes.
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I completely agree.
I saw some video the other day. It was on Simon Reeve's series about Scandinavia. Norway, I think, but can't be certain. The relevant scenes were showing a huge enterprise which involved a massive ship, containing very large open water tanks. They were pumping sea water through these netted cages on the ship. They had solved the biggest problem of shallow water fish farms in lochs and fiords, which is bad pollution of the water environment from hundreds of thousands of fish excreting waste into a shallow water, usually part enclosed environment. Because this massive vessel can move about the open sea, none of that concentrated waste problem happens.
They were also zapping the sea lice pests off the salmon with an automated laser device, so the fish welfare problem was solved and without over use of drugs and pesticides (or the fish equivalent).
This video isn't the one I saw, but it deals with some of the same issues. This ship contains 2 million salmon. They are grown and processed on board.
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The other fish farm problem is what they feed the salmon on. It is no use abandoning the traditional wild fish hunting of fish that has been so overdone that we have wrecked most of our fisheries and marine environment, if we feed fish meal raped from the seas to the caged salmon. What good have we done if we do that? We are still pillaging the oceans for fish protein.... We need food sources that we can obtain from land grown feed stock. About half of the food supplied to farmed salmon comes from fish meal and fish oil derived from traditional fishing.
However they can be fed on insect based foods which can be produced in factories on land. Soldier fly larvae can form a basis of the protein requirement of farmed salmon. The conversion rate of insect protein is very much better than ordinary meat production - better even than poultry which is the most efficient meat production in terms of how many kilos of feed is required to produce a kilo of meat. From memory, I think it was about 1.7 kilos of oats to make 1 kilo of cricket protein. I am not suggesting that crickets would suit salmon, but soldier fly larvae do and have no impact on the taste of the product.
Either way - if we don't stop raping the seas with the current disgusting fishing methods and scale of extraction of fish we will do intolerable damage to the environment.
European fishing methods and scale of exploitation are outrageously bad.
www.instagram.com
However they can be fed on insect based foods which can be produced in factories on land. Soldier fly larvae can form a basis of the protein requirement of farmed salmon. The conversion rate of insect protein is very much better than ordinary meat production - better even than poultry which is the most efficient meat production in terms of how many kilos of feed is required to produce a kilo of meat. From memory, I think it was about 1.7 kilos of oats to make 1 kilo of cricket protein. I am not suggesting that crickets would suit salmon, but soldier fly larvae do and have no impact on the taste of the product.
Either way - if we don't stop raping the seas with the current disgusting fishing methods and scale of extraction of fish we will do intolerable damage to the environment.
European fishing methods and scale of exploitation are outrageously bad.
Greenpeace Aotearoa on Instagram: "NEVER BEFORE SEEN FOOTAGE This is not fishing, this is extinction, and it demands action. Did you know that New Zealand is the ONLY country still bottom trawling in international waters in the South Pacific and Tasman Sea? There and in New Zealand waters, companies like Talley's are bottom trawling on seamounts where they destroy ancient coral forests. The new film 'Ocean' with David Attenborough captures the most detailed footage ever filmed of bottom trawling — a brutal fishing method that destroys everything in its path. Dragging enormous weighted nets across the seafloor, trawlers obliterate marine ecosystems, kill untargeted species, including ancient coral, and leave lifeless scars in the ocean. This incredible footage has never been seen before. Now it’s out — and it demands action. Find out more about NZ's bottom trawling via the link in our BIO: @GreenpeaceNZ Ocean with David Attenborough is in cinemas now and streaming globally from 8 June. @Silverback_Films and @openplanetorg #OceanFilm #BanBottomTrawling #Ocean #DavidAttenborough"
269 likes, 17 comments - greenpeacenz on May 12, 2025: "NEVER BEFORE SEEN FOOTAGE This is not fishing, this is extinction, and it demands action. Did you know that New Zealand is the ONLY country still bottom trawling in international waters in the South Pacific and Tasman Sea? There and in...
www.instagram.com
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On conservancy of fish, the UK is behind other European countries, even worse than France. ChatGPT can confirm this.
Quote:
The UK has made significant strides in fisheries conservation, especially since Brexit, but it presents a mixed picture compared to top performers like Norway or Sweden.
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Strengths of UK Fisheries Conservation1. Post-Brexit autonomy
The UK can now set its own quotas and fisheries policy via the Fisheries Act 2020.
Committed to a “maximum sustainable yield” (MSY) approach, aligning with international best practices.
2. Science-based management
Scientific advice primarily comes from CEFAS (Centre for Environment, Fisheries and Aquaculture Science) and ICES (International Council for the Exploration of the Sea).
The UK is still closely integrated with ICES stock assessments, ensuring continuity with EU-era best practices.
3. Quota and control systems
Maintains Total Allowable Catches (TACs) and licensing systems.
Increased use of remote electronic monitoring (REM) and vessel tracking (though patchy across fleets).
4. Marine Protected Areas (MPAs)
Over 370 MPAs covering 38% of UK waters.
The UK has banned bottom trawling in some MPAs in 2023, a move praised by conservation groups.
5. Decentralization and co-management
Four devolved administrations (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland) manage their fisheries, sometimes allowing for tailored conservation measures.
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Weaknesses and Challenges1. Enforcement Gaps
While REM and vessel monitoring exist, enforcement remains inconsistent, particularly for smaller vessels and inshore fleets.
2. Discarding and Bycatch
Discard ban ("landing obligation") is still weakly enforced, and bycatch of non-target species (like seabirds, dolphins) is a known issue.
3. Overfishing of Some Stocks
UK has frequently set quotas above scientific advice (often during negotiations with the EU and Norway), especially for key stocks like cod, herring, and haddock.
4. Brexit-related pressure
Tensions with EU vessels and political pressure to increase UK fishers’ share of quota have sometimes led to short-term decisions over long-term sustainability.
5. Complex Governance
Devolution creates a fragmented system—Scotland and England, for example, have different priorities and strategies, which can make cohesive conservation efforts difficult.
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Overall ComparisonCategory UK Norway Sweden Denmark
Science-based quotas
(but not always followed) (strong adherence) Enforcement (MCS)
Mixed Bycatch reduction
Needs improvement Marine protected areas (MPAs)
Good coverage Ecosystem-based management
Early stage ---
Summary
The UK is better than the EU average, especially in terms of transparency and MPA coverage, but it lags behind Scandinavian countries and Iceland/Norway when it comes to consistent scientific quota setting and enforcement.
If the UK strengthens monitoring and follows scientific advice more closely, it could become a leader in sustainable fisheries in the next few years.
Your spin on the state of fishing policy is ridiculous. You are clearly not arguing rationally.
France has opposed the UK bans on bottom trawling and has put up vigorous objections to it. Bottom trawling should be completely banned as it destroys the entire marine environment.
Google AI
AI Overview
It's difficult to definitively say whether the UK is "behind" France in fish conservancy, as the two countries have different approaches and priorities. However, recent actions and disagreements suggest that there are differences in their approaches to fisheries management, particularly concerning bottom trawling in marine protected areas.
Elaboration:
While both the UK and France have stated objectives for sustainable fisheries management and marine protection, the UK's recent actions, particularly the bottom trawling ban, have been met with resistance from France. This suggests differences in their priorities and approaches, with the UK potentially taking a more restrictive stance on certain fishing practices to protect marine ecosystems.
France has opposed the UK bans on bottom trawling and has put up vigorous objections to it. Bottom trawling should be completely banned as it destroys the entire marine environment.
Google AI
AI Overview
It's difficult to definitively say whether the UK is "behind" France in fish conservancy, as the two countries have different approaches and priorities. However, recent actions and disagreements suggest that there are differences in their approaches to fisheries management, particularly concerning bottom trawling in marine protected areas.
Elaboration:
- UK Restrictions on Bottom Trawling:
The UK has implemented a ban on bottom trawling in 13 Marine Protected Areas (MPAs), covering a significant area. This ban applies to both UK and EU vessels, including French ones.
- French Opposition:
France has protested this ban, claiming it breaches the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA). French diplomats argue that the UK is not honoring its commitments to allow French vessels access to UK waters.
- Conservationist Views:
Conservation groups and environmentalists have largely supported the UK ban, viewing it as a necessary step to protect marine ecosystems and biodiversity.
- French "Year of the Sea":
France has also declared 2024 the "year of the sea" and will host the United Nations Conference on the Oceans in Nice in 2025, which suggests a focus on marine conservation.
- UK-EU Fisheries Agreement:
The UK and the EU have a new agreement that protects fishing rights and access, with no increase in the amount of fish EU vessels can catch in British waters, providing stability for the sector.
While both the UK and France have stated objectives for sustainable fisheries management and marine protection, the UK's recent actions, particularly the bottom trawling ban, have been met with resistance from France. This suggests differences in their priorities and approaches, with the UK potentially taking a more restrictive stance on certain fishing practices to protect marine ecosystems.
France has 500+ MPAs where fishing is banned altogether. A lot more than 13.
Yes it was Simon Reeve's program about Norway, the item specifically their fish farming, with much to be admired in their advances.
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I think it is interesting that there are fish farmers looking into using insect protein to feed the fish too. Much more sustainable and easy to produce. I think I read somewhere that insect biomass on Earth is the greatest proportion of living animals. They reproduce at a vast scale and grow rapidly on plant material, so they are the ideal creatures to convert plants into high quality protein.
For myself, I would rather eat salmon than mealy bugs or flies. That extra step in conversion to human food is worth the trouble, I'd say.....
Since our species is seemingly determined to over reproduce (in Africa and Asia anyway) to ridiculous levels of population, far outweighing traditional food production, we are going to have to look at new ways of feeding our ridiculous species.
In the longer term, Europe is going to have to robustly - and I mean VERY robustly police its borders to prevent being entirely over run, by the over spilling surplus population of Africa and the Middle East. 'We ain't seen nothing yet' as the man once said. Not to do so will wreck any chance of a decent life for all the people who live here now. It would be environmental suicide not to prevent that.
Africa is vastly underdevelopped. People move to where there are jobs. Manufacturing will move to where wages are lowest and energy and supply chains can be organised.
I reckon the problem will solve itself with China's belt and road initiative in the next 50 to 100 years. Here are the current estimates of population densities in the near future, next 100 years:
- Africa is projected to more than triple its density, pressing urgent concerns over resources, infrastructure, and urban planning.
- Asia stabilizes after mid-century, as fertility declines offset growth.
- Europe continues to shrink in density due to low birth rates.
- North America, Latin America, and Oceania maintain relatively flat density growth.
Africa: Rapid urbanisation & densification. Policy focus needed on housing, food, health.
Asia: Plateauing densities mean shifting attention toward ageing infrastructures and declining rural regions.
Europe: Decline continues — think adaptation to shrinking, ageing populations.
Americas & Oceania: Balanced growth; less dramatic challenges.
| Continent | ~2020 Density(people/km²) | 2050 Density | 2100 Density |
|---|---|---|---|
| Africa | ~40 | 84 | 148 (stats.unctad.org) |
| Asia | ~142 | 170 | 147 |
| Europe | ~74 (Western ~183) | (Western ~183) | ~27 |
| North America | ~35 | ~21 (N. America region) | ~25 |
| Latin America & Caribbean | ~, (~34 region) | ~34 | ~32 |
| Oceania | ~5.8 | ~5.8 | ~8.6 |
UK proposes wider ban on destructive bottom trawling
The government wants to prohibit bottom trawling from more protected areas of UK waters.
www.bbc.co.uk
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