Should I go sensible or out right fun? BBSHD vs TSDZ2 350w

lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
I think your choice of controller is maybe a little ambitious. Your motor will probably handle the 40 amps, but you will need an even higher spec battery than the BBSHD one to run at that power level. The power should be adjustable with the LCD, but why carry a large, heavier controller when you are only going to use maybe half it's power. The right 250/350 watt motor with a 20amp controller running at 48v will give you nearly 1000 watts of power at a reasonable cost.
Thanks, as said this is going to be a massive learning curve. The basket list was more to work out what types of components would be required.

When my other thread is approved I will continue the conversation there.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
This is where it gets complicated. BMSB do not have ideal controllers for the Q128C. The S12SN at 40 amps is way too much. I'm 12 1/4 stone and use a 14 amp 48v controller, which gives plenty of power for steep hills, and we have a lot of very steep hills around here. The only suitable controller that BMSB do is the 20A one for the Dolphin battery, which you have to blank-off to use on its own, i.e. remove the battery connector and cover or plug the hole:

https://bmsbattery.com/controller/698-sine-wave-controller-for-09-case-controller.html?search_query=20a+sine+wave&results=95

When you use that controller, all the connectors are moulded and the cables are too long, so you have to find a way of losing/hiding the excess wire, which is why I prefer the box type with normal connectors, which I put in an under-seat tool-bag.

You can get the aluminium box type controllers from here. The 17A one will probably be ideal:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/pic.asp?ModID=PicS224&TypID=S220052

The 201 rpm Q128c does about 19 mph and the 328 rpm one does 28 mph. make sure that you chose the one you want.

You also need a pair of the BMSB torque arms, though you only need to fit one on one side.

As far as I'm concerned, the 48v Q128C and a KT sine wave controller is ebiking nirvana. The motor will be so smooth and silent that sometimes you think you're providing the power yourself.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
13,332
10,494
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
When you use that controller, all the connectors are moulded and the cables are too long, so you have to find a way of losing/hiding the excess wire, which is why I prefer the box type with normal connectors, which I put in an under-seat tool-bag.
that is why we cut and remake some cables to size for my customers for a neater installation.
For example, from the HL controller integrated to the cradle of to the rear motor it's 60cm, to the pedal sensor is 10cm.
You can't have that level of help and support from bmsbattery.
 

lovelock

Finding my (electric) wheels
Mar 27, 2018
17
0
28
Southampton
This is where it gets complicated. BMSB do not have ideal controllers for the Q128C. The S12SN at 40 amps is way too much. I'm 12 1/4 stone and use a 14 amp 48v controller, which gives plenty of power for steep hills, and we have a lot of very steep hills around here. The only suitable controller that BMSB do is the 20A one for the Dolphin battery, which you have to blank-off to use on its own, i.e. remove the battery connector and cover or plug the hole:

https://bmsbattery.com/controller/698-sine-wave-controller-for-09-case-controller.html?search_query=20a+sine+wave&results=95

When you use that controller, all the connectors are moulded and the cables are too long, so you have to find a way of losing/hiding the excess wire, which is why I prefer the box type with normal connectors, which I put in an under-seat tool-bag.

You can get the aluminium box type controllers from here. The 17A one will probably be ideal:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/pic.asp?ModID=PicS224&TypID=S220052

The 201 rpm Q128c does about 19 mph and the 328 rpm one does 28 mph. make sure that you chose the one you want.

You also need a pair of the BMSB torque arms, though you only need to fit one on one side.

As far as I'm concerned, the 48v Q128C and a KT sine wave controller is ebiking nirvana. The motor will be so smooth and silent that sometimes you think you're providing the power yourself.
Awesome reply. That really helps!

I need to wrap my head around the way the controller and battery work together in terms of output.

Would you recommend buying all the PAS etc together with the KT controller you linked?

Finally, would this be using a 36v or 48v battery?
 

Nealh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 7, 2014
9,279
3,552
56
West Sx RH
Another option is to use a 17 or 20a KT controller and LCD with a GSMoon legally marked mid drive (the controller less version) , run it at 13s 48v with decent GA, MJ1 OR 30Q cells.
From what I remember the GSM with internal controller had plenty of poke at 36v unrestricted and 28mph.
I did had one which went a bit hay wire after water ingress and a replacement also went haywire no water ingress.
So an external mounted controller version should give no problems.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Awesome reply. That really helps!

I need to wrap my head around the way the controller and battery work together in terms of output.

Would you recommend buying all the PAS etc together with the KT controller you linked?

Finally, would this be using a 36v or 48v battery?
36v should be enough for your weight. It depends how fast you want to go. 48v will always give 33% more power at the same current, and you can always turn the power down, but if you don't have it, you can't turn it up.

The controller regulates the power, and the battery supplies it. They both need to operate at the same voltage. Some of these controllers are switchable between voltages, and so are some of the LCDs. As a general rule, you need at least 5A headroom on the battery current, so a 15A controller needs a battery that can provide at least 20A continuously. A 20A controller needs a 25A battery.

It's always best to buy the LCD, PAS, throttle, etc with the controller because you'll get the right connectors connected in the right sequence. When you mix and match, you nearly always have to do a bit of adjustment to the connectors, like you get male to male or the wires in a non-matching sequence e.g. red, white, black vs red black white.

The motor comes with a lead that has the right connectors for the box type controllers. The controllers with the sealed connectors come with a special motor lead. At the motor end, they both have the standard 9 pin lead,

One other thing: It's worth getting the wheel-speed sensor with the controller. It only costs a few dollars and will save you if the motor's internal one packs up, which can happen.

The battery connects to the controller with two wires. It's pretty rare for them to have the correct connectors, so the easiest thing is to solder them together rather than bother with connectors.

Finally, BMSB sell batteries with controllers already installed, though be aware that the fixing points for the 08 case are very high up the frame, so I doubt that you'll be able to use both bottle cage screws. Instead you have to drill a hole in your frame and insert your own rivnut (or two).

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/680-48v116ah-bottle-09-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/774-48v116ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-battery/784-48v116ah-case-08-bottle-panasonic-battery-pack-battery.html
 

smifee

Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2017
50
52
71
Chandler's Ford
Which hill? I've ridden most in Soton on a hub motor cargo trike.
The ride is Bitterne to Whitely via Swannick.

This is roughly the map: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/50.9086153,-1.3463362/Whiteley+Way,+Whiteley,+Fareham+PO15+7PD/@50.891614,-1.298424,13.61z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m0!1m5!1m1!1s0x48746efdedd279a5:0xb81a78ec6fa673e2!2m2!1d-1.2453365!2d50.8802197!3e1

And the main hill being either side of Swannick, from Bursledon to the bottom and then up again.

I don't need to sit on the throttle at 30mph all the way, happy to put some effort in... :)[/QUOTE]

I do that one once a month from April to October when delivering to Fareham.

It's a long drag but I'm 69 13 & a half stone and my 250w hub motor copes easily even against a head wind.

I don't know what the motor rpm speed is. I'm a tech ignoramus and a fair weather only cyclist.
 

Zac

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jul 16, 2017
16
9
.
BBSHD if you have the dosh, they are so well engineered.

Tongsheng is good in it's own way though a tad noisy under load, choose option with throttle they cost just pennies more, the latest 52v 750w has good range.

Beauty of mid drives is they are so easy to fit and move around your bikes on a whim.
 
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AndrewJ

Pedelecer
Apr 12, 2013
32
5
I've used both 36V and 52V TSDZ2 kits; the 36V has been in use for almost 3 years and pulled up to 100kg of load (inc trailer); the only thing that has needed replacing is the VLCD5 screen. On the standard 36V the support tails off when spinning at higher cadences (over 90RPM) so surprised to hear reports saying that one needs to pedal fast as in my experience the reverse is true. The 52V tails off at a higher cadence, circa 100RPM, and now you can get overdrive versions, whereby a 48V or 52V controller is matched to a 36V motor for support at an even higher cadence, albeit with a drop in torque. Eco setting on the 52V is a bit too much for me especially as one uses that from a standstill, but on ES they are working at being able to reprogram the controller so that one can adjust the default settings. The BBSHD is over 2kg heavier than the TSDZ2 52V but the HD is of course a lot more powerful; depends what you're after. I don't use e-assist for 20mph+ riding as I purchased it in order to go up hills at a faster rate with cargo.
 
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